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Sgt HAZMAT
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H2O2 and Ca(OCl)2
Question (My first!!! Yea!)
The MSDS for calcium hypo-cholrite (Ca(OCl)2 (35%))- calls for disposal of it by mixing with hydrogen peroxide (H2O2).....
Why is this and can H2O be used instead? If so (H2O) what would the amount per lbs be and is there any contamination from this reaction to worry
about?
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Esplosivo
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As far as I know hypochlorites react with hydrogen peroxide resulting in the formation of the respective chloride, in this case calcium chloride and
oxygen (from the reduction of H2O2, which in this case is acting as the reducing agent). Water would have no effect except that of dissolving the
hypochlorite to form a solution.
Theory guides, experiment decides.
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vulture
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This reaction is going to be quite violent and exothermic though, not recommended for large batches.
How much do you need to dispose of? Oxalic acid might be a better option.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Sgt HAZMAT
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I have about 800 lbs to get rid of. Can Water be used in stead of H2O2? And if so how much per Lbs?
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cyclonite4
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Explosivo already explained water cant be used to dispose of Ca(OCl)2, all that would happen is the calcium hypochlorite dissolving in water.
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire
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Sgt HAZMAT
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I was thinking that too. But then I realized that we dispose of swimming pool water in the main sewer or out on to the earth and it has a low ppm of
about 2, and that is not considered a HAZ-WASTE. So if this is true how much water would it take to dilute the Cl down to that amount.....
(Can you tell I am new at this?)
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sparkgap
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Methinks a little calculation should convince you that you'd need a humongous amount of water to dilute 800 pounds of hypochlorite down to 2 ppm.
Now, 2 ppm might be considered the same as 2 mg/L. (Recall that in this system, grams and milliliters are taken as equivalent). Now, converting 800
lbs. (can you tell I prefer metric? ) gives 3.63 × 10<sup>5</sup>
g.  With subsequent calculation, we require about 1.81 ×
10<sup>8</sup> L! (I'm too lazy to convert to gallons,
sorry!)
sparky (^_^)
P.S. Are you sure all of the 800 lbs. are hypochlorite, or is there the possibility of inert matter being present? If so, the above calculations do
not apply.
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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Sgt HAZMAT
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I should have said it it only 35% Ca ( OCl )2 . in my post. I gues that would make it like a total of 250 lbs fo pure Ca ( OCl ) 2 which would bring
down your numbers likewise by about 65% Though that is still a huge amount of water and what I was afraid of.
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sparkgap
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In that case, try to look into how to procure bulk amounts of oxalic acid. It doesn't have to be extremely pure; technical grade should suffice.
(right, vulture?  )
sparky (^_^)
P.S. If you guys had that amount of water I calculated, spare a thought for the people who find it difficult to procure drinking water. 
[Edited on 21-4-2005 by sparkgap]
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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Sgt HAZMAT
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I wish we did. I am in the desert and dont have near that amount to dump on it.
Back to Sq #1
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Jome
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Wont addition of oxalic acid to the hypoclorite result in a huge cloud of Cl2 gas?
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cyclonite4
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I second that. I guess the logic here doesnt take the chlorine (or ozone for that matter) into account. I would think the chlorine would be more of a
problem.
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire
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sparkgap
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It wasn't exactly suggested to dump the oxalic acid into the hypochlorite all at once. But yes, Cl<sub>2</sub> air pollution would be the new problem for this strategem. So it's now a case of choosing between Scylla and Charybdis. Pollute the water or
the air?
Something occured to me, I don't know if it's correct, but doesn't hypochlorite photodecompose? If so, maybe he can take advantage of
his current (ahem) location.
sparky (^_^)
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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cyclonite4
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Air or water.... or CHILDS PLAYGROUND!!
Nah, kidding.
Why couldn't you just recycle the hypochlorite, use it for pools and such? Is it contaminated?
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire
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sparkgap
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I don't know about him if his hypochlorite is contaminated, but since he mentions that he's in a desert, for sure there aren't enough
pools of water in there for his hypochlorite to be used upon. 
I don't think exporting the hypochlorite someplace else would constitute proper waste disposal either.
sparky (^_^)
P.S. There you go again with dumping stuff in children's playgrounds (like the one in the ricin thread)... what's with you?
[Edited on 21-4-2005 by sparkgap]
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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cyclonite4
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sparkgap
I don't think exporting the hypochlorite someplace else would constitute proper waste disposal either. |
*breaks into song*: I'ts the american waaayyyy!
What do you mean childrens playground again, I swear that was the first time I said it. Then again I may be wrong 
EDIT:
| Quote: | | I don't know about him if his hypochlorite is contaminated, but since he mentions that he's in a desert, for sure there aren't enough
pools of water in there for his hypochlorite to be used upon. |
Wouldn't being in the desert be further justification to have a pool or two?
[Edited on 22-4-2005 by cyclonite4]
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire
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vulture
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Won't the calciumhypochlorite oxidize the oxalic acid to CO2 and H2O, just like KMnO4 does?
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Dave Angel
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How about thermal decomposition?
The temperature doesn't have to be very high; 177°C, and the reaction is exothermic and thus could be moderated to be self-sustaining.
Some sources state that the only hazardous decomposition product is oxygen, whilst some give chlorine and chlorine monoxide also. The latter two may
come at higher temperatures or perhaps they are decomposition products of pathways other than thermal.
Sounds like a solar furnace project is in order - perfect location and motivation!
Well, at least a few experiments with a propane stove...
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Pyrovus
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Won't that give Ca(ClO3)2?
Never accept that which can be changed.
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azaleaemerson
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I suggest dissolving in water and mixing it with a reducing agent. Swimming pool places sell "anti-chlor" which is sodium bisulfite. The
end products will be sodium chloride, sodium sulfate, and water.
azalea
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Sgt HAZMAT
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Now that is an interesting idea!!!
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cyclonite4
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That is a good idea, but what to do with the byproducts after that?
\"It is dangerous to be right, when your government is wrong.\" - Voltaire
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sparkgap
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I am utterly confused; which idea was our HazMat manager referring to: the solar furnace idea or the bisulfite idea?
I'm still skeptical with the bisulfite, since water is apparently a precious commodity in the desert... how much would he then need to use? In
other words, how soluble is hypochlorite mixed with bisulfite in water? But maybe, just maybe, the diverse ion effect can be in his favor.
sparky (^_^)
"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
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Sgt HAZMAT
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I was refering to the bisulfite.
Oh and we do have water here, just not millions of Gals to throw at something.
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Dave Angel
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pyrovus
Won't that give Ca(ClO3)2? |
Do you know that for sure or are you just tossing thoughts around? Are you thinking it might be a disproportionation?
Do say so if you are certain!
I'm not sure myself; the point of an experiment would be to find out!
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