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macckone
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Ebola rest on was easily spread via airborne particles.
It is descended from Ebola Zaire but they are not the same.
Ebola of any kind can be spread by airborne droplets.
However it's viability is negligible by aerosols.
Not zero but negligible. If an Ebola patient coughs
bloody sputum all over you there is a reasonably high risk.
This happens a lot in a medical setting but not so much on
a bus. It also can't penetrate unbroken skin.
Unlike the flu which can live on surfaces for hours
Ebola is in the range of a couple of minutes.
If you touch an Ebola infected surface you then need
To rub your eyes or nose for transmission within a very
Short time frame.
Now contact with sweat droplets, vomit, sputum, or blood
Is more dangerous because those can stay moist
For hours days and even weeks.
The lack of contagion before symptoms appear is much
More debatable and there is significant evidence that
People are contagious for hours before symptoms are
Noticeable.
Now as an intelligent person I would say there is significant
Financial pressure not to close the borders. There is also
significant pressure to bring patients to the US for clinical
Trials. The quarantine proposal is feasible but not practical.
Banning travelers from west Africa is possible but
People will start hiding their travel. And that makes tracking
Potentially infectious people more difficult. And by law we
Can't keep out citizens. That silly constitution thing and all.
We could quarantine them but that falls to the local government
Where they land. And frankly Dallas didn't want to foot
The bill for one man let alone hundreds or thousands.
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S.C. Wack
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Thought this would be related to chemistry somehow, not a whimsy thread outside of it...this is why I never read it...BTW I rather doubt any cell
service at all in the areas where people are attacking white doctors/outsiders in general, disinfectant sprayers, etc. if they dare enter the
area...much less people affording cell phones and monthly service, in areas where people are eating monkeys...
Quote: Originally posted by IrC  | | Close the borders and refuse to allow any flights coming in from Africa unless they are only...brought to us by the criminals running things. This
makes me damn angry. |
Much like how I feel about hysteric authoritarian knee-jerks...who often have a sort of (often uninformed) thinking (yes the thought police and
dangerous thinking) far more pervasive and dangerous than Ebola viz. the one (1) person to spread it here.
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Rosco Bodine
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Isolation and quarantine protocols for prevention of epidemics from contagious diseases is not an unreasoning kind of paranoia that is a product of
hysteria. On the contrary it is a well reasoned and well founded, absolutely scientifically proven approach to protecting the health of uninfected
populations of plants, animals, and humans from becoming infected with disease by transmission from others already infected. This is not some new or
untested idea that was dreamt up by authoritarian knee jerks or control freaks but is an old established practice which well serves self preservation
and is a common sense counter measure against extinction.
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S.C. Wack
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So everyone with HIV should have been sent to its home in Africa? How about quarantining those kids with peanut allergies so the 99.999999% of other
kids can have peanut butter sandwiches again? Surely hereditary diseases need to be stopped before all of our descendants have them, now that medicine
allows the genetically unsound to reproduce?
Who's saying ebola patients shouldn't be quarantined?
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franklyn
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The most famous case of involuntary quarantine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_Mary
Traveling from east to west there are places that have served similar purpose in
the past that can be re-purposed now. There are also various FEMA facilities that
are suitable. A hospital ship could be used immediately and is probably ideal.
It makes no sense that I can see to treat victims with evident disease locally
where ever they may be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Island_Animal_Disease_Cent...
Currently for sale
http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/180067
The ones most capable in close association with the CDC
Fort Detrick, Maryland,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Medical_Rese...
http://www.usamriid.army.mil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugway_Proving_Ground
Operational
http://www.dugway.army.mil
My personal favorite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll
Had been for sale
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Johnston_A...
http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2010/04/isolated-and-abandon...
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IrC
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| Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine | | Isolation and quarantine protocols for prevention of epidemics from contagious diseases is not an unreasoning kind of paranoia that is a product of
hysteria. On the contrary it is a well reasoned and well founded, absolutely scientifically proven approach to protecting the health of uninfected
populations of plants, animals, and humans from becoming infected with disease by transmission from others already infected. This is not some new or
untested idea that was dreamt up by authoritarian knee jerks or control freaks but is an old established practice which well serves self preservation
and is a common sense counter measure against extinction. |
Good luck convincing so called science minded people who think along the lines S.C. Wack just posted. How odd that any decent so called 'chemist' here
would keep their Prussic or Carbolic acids stored in safe containers, who would fear letting Fluorine gas or 70% HF out of the container to float
around the room or drip upon their skin. People who are paranoid about Hg or worse the Dimethyl variety, yet think I am hysterical or paranoid for
saying we should implement the most sound, sane, simple common sense precaution of stopping Ebola infected people from walking freely around a
population of 110 million people.
Or 7 billion, after all so many are jetting around the globe even as I speak. A virus with a kill rate of 70 percent or higher. By the way for all the
bodies that are, and those yet to be, the kill rate was 100 percent. Quoting proliferation statistics based upon outbreaks (in isolated villages with
near zero modes of transportation) long past is useless when one considers the vast increase in numbers of infected people and distance traveled,
spanning the globe at this moment in time.
Seriously, implying a pathology of mind with the symptoms of hysteria and paranoia for merely choosing not to allow even the chance of exposure to
something which may as well be VX for all the chance of survival one has? You have got to be kidding me. Taking a liberal political approach to
dealing with Ebola and you call yourselves scientists? It boggles the mind. If a pathology of mind applies look in the mirror when you so cavalierly
dismiss the danger facing humanity at this moment in time.
Ask all the thousands of dead people, or the millions by January as has been predicted by some of the brightest in the field of virology if they wish
they had the chance to go back and not be infected by whoever it was that killed them. Oh wait, you cannot.
So many keep speaking to the fact that the deadly to humans strain is not airborne while ignoring the number of mutations yet to be analyzed which has
already occurred in the thousands of victims. Doing so with the voice of 'scientific authority' as if all factors are known at this moment in time yet
no exhaustive study of all recent cases has been done. For the simple reason when one is in the middle of the fight to save people while hoping they
do not join them in the next dimension, one is not able to gather all the data, do all the research needed to be sure the handle they think they have
is as firm as they believe it is. How many hundreds of medical personnel have been infected, and/or died thus far, even though they took every known
precaution their equipment and training provided? Can they say with absolute certainty a mutation yet to be discovered and proven has not already
occurred, can they prove it is not now airborne? Then why are so many doctors being infected in light of the precautions they took?
While you may choose to believe the so called 'experts' doing their media interviews about the 'facts' they are so sure of, pardon me if I choose to
trust none of them. Scientists? Experts? Someone move this thread to Whimsy it would fit better there. In other words, what this town needs is an
enema.
| Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack | So everyone with HIV should have been sent to its home in Africa? How about quarantining those kids with peanut allergies so the 99.999999% of other
kids can have peanut butter sandwiches again? Surely hereditary diseases need to be stopped before all of our descendants have them, now that medicine
allows the genetically unsound to reproduce?
Who's saying ebola patients shouldn't be quarantined? |
I can go out on the town, go shopping, be employed working with hundreds, walk along the streets, fly the world, go on a Caribbean cruise, all while
never having unprotected sex and be infected with HIV. I can also do all of the above having never once eaten peanuts. This cannot be compared with
Ebola, you are far beyond the apples and oranges realm. If I had to state how far beyond I am not sure even buffalo and ants would apply.
I never implied you stated 'Ebola patients shouldn't be quarantined', but it certainly appears you have real problems with my desire to close the
borders and stop Ebola infected people from flying in from Africa. Especially when they vomit and die as they land in New York or are quarantined near
Belize after communing with hundreds in close confinement on a cruise ship. The latter example indicating those already here who have been exposed
should also not be allowed travel or engage in social contact in society. The life of even a single person not already exposed is far more important
than the imposition of a month of quarantine upon someone who has been or may have been exposed. Even a small amount of common sense and due
consideration to the safety of others is better than the way things are being handled at this point in time. Absolutely suicidal liberal insanity
seems to be the view of far too many as can be seen by anyone following the news.
On another concern. Is one 'hysterically paranoid' to want the borders closed. Closed means fully controlled. Only people with proper ID enter in
accordance with established law. No more unknown strangers coming in through a remote area carrying only God knows what and for what purpose. Would I
be 'hysterically paranoid' to not wish to be on one of 4 select planes on 911? Have not the terrorists made quite clear their intentions against us?
Are not prayer rugs and korans being found all over the border area for years now? Could not a terrorist or large number of the same infect themselves
and enter secretly? Are you any good at playing Chess? Only a complete moron would insist on unsecured borders while denying the chance of disaster
their wish implies. Is this the way other nations operate? Are untold numbers allowed to sneak into any country they wish in the EU or do those
nations pay attention to who and what is entering? Do I really need to go into these scenarios or is it not self evident that no nation can survive
being run the way our government is now running this one? Is there no intelligence and common sense left on earth?
[Edited on 10-18-2014 by IrC]
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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S.C. Wack
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Seeing bogeymen everywhere isn't hysteria at all...perfectly normal for many...cue the shrugged shoulders, everlasting indifference to any
inconvenient facts or collateral damage.
Someone is vomiting in an airplane! Panic! Panic! They got the ebola!!! We can't take any chances!!! Totally not hysteria.
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IrC
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Thus is the way of the pathologically liberal, seeing all things in extremes. Accusing one of paranoia and hysteria in lieu of honest level headed
caution and concern in light of the real facts in existence at this time in history. Someone acts prudently and logically with sound reason and the
pathologically liberal can only view it through the eyes of hysterical hyperbole. Par for the course.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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Sedit
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| Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack | Seeing bogeymen everywhere isn't hysteria at all...perfectly normal for many...cue the shrugged shoulders, everlasting indifference to any
inconvenient facts or collateral damage.
Someone is vomiting in an airplane! Panic! Panic! They got the ebola!!! We can't take any chances!!! Totally not hysteria. |
On the same plane that the Infected person recently flew on... If that's not a reason to scare you before test results came in you would be a fool.
[Edited on 18-10-2014 by Sedit]
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Texium
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| Quote: Originally posted by IrC | Thus is the way of the pathologically liberal, seeing all things in extremes. Accusing one of paranoia and hysteria in lieu of honest level headed
caution and concern in light of the real facts in existence at this time in history. Someone acts prudently and logically with sound reason and the
pathologically liberal can only view it through the eyes of hysterical hyperbole. Par for the course.
|
The fact is this: you can count the number of cases of ebola in the United States on one hand. It seems to
be pretty much under control, and the only case where it got passed off since arriving over here was due to stupid safety practices at that Dallas
hospital. That's my honest, level-headed viewpoint. The media is sensationalizing this thing to death. You really think that the media that goes on a
rant for weeks about a ghost plane wouldn't overhype the ebola scare? I guarantee this thing will blow over in a matter of time, at least in America,
and we'll all forget about it in a matter of months. Then you'll move on and shake your fist at the politically correctness of some other issue.
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Brain&Force
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| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | Quote: Originally posted by IrC | Thus is the way of the pathologically liberal, seeing all things in extremes. Accusing one of paranoia and hysteria in lieu of honest level headed
caution and concern in light of the real facts in existence at this time in history. Someone acts prudently and logically with sound reason and the
pathologically liberal can only view it through the eyes of hysterical hyperbole. Par for the course.
|
The fact is this: you can count the number of cases of ebola in the United States on one hand. It seems to
be pretty much under control, and the only case where it got passed off since arriving over here was due to stupid safety practices at that Dallas
hospital. That's my honest, level-headed viewpoint. The media is sensationalizing this thing to death. You really think that the media that goes on a
rant for weeks about a ghost plane wouldn't overhype the ebola scare? I guarantee this thing will blow over in a matter of time, at least in America,
and we'll all forget about it in a matter of months. Then you'll move on and shake your fist at the politically correctness of some other issue.
|
Thank Satan someone brought that bit of logic up. Don't bother stockpiling for apocalypses - there won't be one.
Anyone remember swine flu? And no, not the outbreak in 1917 - the one in 2008. The human population was dramatically reduced and infrastructure
collapsed.
Wait...that DIDN'T HAPPEN...
And while I agree political correctness (and even the idea that someone can be offended) are crummy cop-outs, you do realize conservatives and
liberals are both equally full of it.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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Chemosynthesis
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I definitely agree that this is probably best suited for Whimsy as it's not a chemistry, nor an amateur amenable discussion. That said, can we please
avoid comparing a BSL-4 agent with a BSL-2 agent and a non-transmissible food allergy? The very existence of BSL standards is so that we do not treat
them the same way.
Most colleges could probably handle HIV, which is BSL-2. I run into that regularly in medical/research labs with no special precautions taken. I've
seen Ebola once.
In terms of transmission in the U.S., we still don't have all the information here. For example, the CDC and local health officials were contacted by
the Texas nurse and told she was okay to fly on two commercial flights, but now the CDC is questioning when she became symptomatic, and noting she may
have been contagious during those flights. While it's unlikely to be an issue this time, it does demonstrate information is forthcoming. The U.S.
isn't even currently handling the TX hospital lab worker who went on a cruise and is supposed to have Ebola according to the government of Belize,
where she is being quarantined. This was after Mexico restricted travel, disallowing the ship to dock there.
I am far from an expert, but I have had both some education and training/experience in virology. I also had the opportunity to work with a
"non-pathogenic" Reston sample years ago, which I declined. Take that for whatever it's worth on the internet, but keep in mind I do not claim
expertise in epidemiology, virology, or Ebola.
As I said before, I think there are too many epidemiological variables to consider here, but we can note some of these variables.
1. Ebola is a retrovirus, which makes it inherently prone to mutation, and can make recovery from deceased patients in remote areas difficult due to
sample degradation within hours.
2. Due to this inherent mutation, there are multiple strains of Ebola, including concurrent outbreaks. The CDC does not consider Congoleese Ebola to
be the same strain as that raging in Liberia and related regions, per the WHO. There is no reason to expect these strains to show the same clinical
fluid titers, as data has not necessarily been consistent.
http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/196/Supplement_2/S142....
See also the error/low n-values here:
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/human-transmission...
Note how little can be confirmed/ruled out in terms of transmission? These are with known strains.
3. We do not know much about Ebola; its natural viral reservoirs are unknown, what viral progenitor it had, its mutation clock, etc. Consider the
possibility, however remote, that Ebola may take up residence in a suitable reservoir in a country outside of the African continent. This fear was
hinted at with animal trafficking in Preston's The Hot Zone.
4. Ebola strains have shown the in vitro ability to infect humans through lung absorption with human lung cell lines. Even Ebola experts do not agree
on the extent of significance of this. This means that concern over airborne transmission is valid, though not necessarily likely. All it takes is an
appropriate change in capsid components, such as glycoproteins, or the lipid envelope to optimize small aerosol formation.
http://jvi.asm.org/content/77/10/5902.long
5. The U.S. in particular has access to novel vaccines and immunopharmaceutical/chemical intervention. First world nations have adequate
sterilization techniques to mitigate fomites, since elimination of a viral envelope degrades virions rapidly. We also some the benefit of media and
education, questionable though they may be; I doubt people will assault Ebola clinics here and disseminate sick patients among the population, or
blaiming medical staff or chemicals (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/17...). However, we also need to be aware of our population density, transportation, and
it has been speculated that "[...] demographic changes can affect the speed of evolution in epidemic pathogens even in the absence of natural
selection [....]"
PMID: 23271803
6. We also have to take into medical preparedness, which is basically nill (taking into account every hospital in the U.S., at least). We can barely
handle flu season, which is rapidly approaching. The cost of educations of medical personnel do not lend to seasonal labor. Nor are buildings built
for it. I remember listening to hospital administration discussions on how to handle patient overflow with swine flu. Well, we potentially have MERS,
SARS, EV-D68, bird flu, swine flu, and your run-of-the-mill variety to cause panic in patients and consume health resources.
And the respiratory syndromes are actually pretty hot infections, though case numbers in the west are lacking.
However, bear in mind that SARS prompted travel restrictions and quarantine in Asian countries. Geopolitical considerations may preclude this in some
African nations, so again, there are just so many variables here it's difficult to say much of anything from a public access perspective.
From a more abstract perspective, people fear the unknown, and there are a lot of unknowns still to resolve with Ebola. Luckily, we have the
scientific method to assist us, but this takes time and requires experimental controls. In veterinary medicine, you can apply techniques such as herd
segregation on a population, and quarantine of individuals much more easily than with people. I think the question of when to begin applying the
concepts of both to humans, rather than just the latter, is as reasonable as the answer seems elusive.
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Rosco Bodine
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According to the CDC's own website ebola is a class A bioterrorism agent
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/agentlist-category.asp
Also for many years any research study of ebola has been restricted by federal law to NIH approved BSL-4 facilities
There are good valid scientific reasons for those designations and restrictions that are not attributable to any ridiculous paranoia or hysteria of
drama queens by those who would now as a matter of political convenience indulge the self-deception or publish the disinformation and deception
seeking to minimize *awareness* of the danger by misleading propaganda. Ebola is both highly lethal and highly contagious and this has been well
known for decades.
Failure of the government of the U.S. to ban travel of persons potentially exposed to ebola or any other of the Class A agents without reliable
screening and quarantine is a dereliction of duty that is criminal negligence and depraved indifference and is tantamount to conduct of a bioterrorism
attack on the citizens being conducted by the government itself. It is a breach of national security.
Period.
[Edited on 18-10-2014 by Rosco Bodine]
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IrC
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zts16 "The fact is this: you can count the number of cases of ebola in the United States on one hand."
How many days since those exposed on a flight, a cruise ship, a bridal store, other stores, money passed around, various homes, schools children
living in the home of ground zero attended, and so on. How many days since those exposed, how many will they contact if they become symptomatic, and
so on. How many more will fly in, sneak through the border, cycle repeats, and so on.
"The media is sensationalizing this thing to death."
As they always do, which has little bearing on the situation in the real world.
In the final analysis don't you think it is far too soon to make predictions, and it is reasonable to be cautious and take common sense precautions?
Look at the pandemic in 1918, compare the virulence factor, consider the number of people and distance traveled 96 years ago as opposed to today.
"I guarantee this thing will blow over in a matter of time"
Possibly yet don't you think too little time has passed to know? How much money does your guarantee offer, how many can you pay if you are wrong, how
much is the value on human lives? How many more refugees and/or terrorists will cross that border PC demands stay open and unwatched and what will
happen yet future?
"Then you'll move on and shake your fist at the politically correctness of some other issue. "
Political correctness worthy of mere fist shaking has a different significance level than PC that ends up destroying lives. We do not yet know how
this will end and can only hope it does so in silence. What about the future? How many animals ate the vomit that spent so much time laying outside
the home of the first fatality before it was hosed down the street. Will 'natural viral reservoirs' be established here, what about down the road in
time?
B&F "you do realize conservatives and liberals are both equally full of it. "
Why yes I do but this has little to no bearing upon the laws nature regulates itself by and I am quite certain nature does not consider the opinion of
either party. It just is.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798086/mutant-ebola...
http://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6959087/ebola-outbreak-virus-m...
[Edited on 10-18-2014 by IrC]
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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Chemosynthesis
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Irrespective of placing fault on anyone, one thing I learned recently and found interesting, since you mentioned Plum Island (USDA zoonotic disease
facility with a checkered history there) earlier, is that Ebola may pose an additional threat to aspects of various nations' food supplies, though
this is yet another speculative unknown. To be a fly on the wall if/when the proposed National Bio and Agro Defense Facility requests samples from the
BEI Resource Repository.
http://m.jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_3/S757.ful...
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | Failure of the government of the U.S. to ban travel of persons potentially exposed to ebola or any other of the Class A agents without reliable
screening and quarantine is a dereliction of duty that is criminal negligence and depraved indifference and is tantamount to conduct of a bioterrorism
attack on the citizens being conducted by the government itself. It is a breach of national security. |
Like Bengazi, another opportunity for America's RWNJs to threaten the black man with impeachment and get him the hell out of their White
House???
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Bert
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Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
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| Quote: |
Like Bengazi, another opportunity for America's RWNJs to threaten the black man with impeachment and get him the hell out of their White House???
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Well, didn't work with shifting Reagan/Poppy Bush on for the quite deliberate neglect at the start of the US AIDS epidemic- Back when it was known
definitively only sinful gay men and degenerate drug abusers would die of AIDS, and good riddance!
Fuck the politics. Fuck the grandstanding and backbiting. Put an actual epidemiologist in charge and FUCKING DO WHAT HE/SHE SAYS TO DO ABOUT THIS!!!
I am about to get into a tin can with 200+ other coughing, sweating people. No interest in party politics right now... Virology yes.
[Edited on 18-10-2014 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Amos
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert |
| Quote: |
Like Bengazi, another opportunity for America's RWNJs to threaten the black man with impeachment and get him the hell out of their White House???
|
Well, didn't work with shifting Reagan/Poppy Bush on for the quite deliberate neglect at the start of the US AIDS epidemic- Back when it was known
definitively only sinful gay men and degenerate drug abusers would die of AIDS, and good riddance!
Fuck the politics. Fuck the grandstanding and backbiting. Put an actual epidemiologist in charge and FUCKING DO WHAT HE/SHE SAYS TO DO ABOUT THIS!!!
I am about to get into a tin can with 200+ other coughing, sweating people. No interest in party politics right now... Virology yes.
[Edited on 18-10-2014 by Bert] |
Honestly, enough said right here. I think that, no matter where you lie on the political spectrum, we're all for this. We have a dangerous shortage of
knowledgeable people in powerful places.
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Rosco Bodine
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Something I was talking about with another DOD contractor is that regardless of the progression of an epidemic of ebola .....it is something which
totally "creeps people out" when there is even one case of it encountered anywhere ......the impact on business there is devastating, for example the
value of real estate or other property that is exposed goes straight into the ebola toilet.....so there is a "disruptive terror" aspect about ebola
which extends the damage economically far beyond the immediate locality of the individual infected.
For example if there is an infected person on an aircraft then that aircraft has lost its value for what was its former use and essentially becomes an
ebola plane. A ship is an expensive item of commercial property that can cost a million dollars just to deep clean but will most people want to be
passengers later on a ship that has become stigmatized as a "plague ship" .....no, so the property value has right there turned to shit because
potential passengers are "creeped out" by the thought of ebola. As another example, the Texas hospital where the ebola patient died has now shut
down normal operations and is no longer a valid business, because employees don't want to work there and other patients don't want to be there either
and are voting with their feet leaving because ebola "creeps them out" to the point the hospital will likely close after being put out of business by
one patient who really never should have been there in the first place. When he walked in the door it was like an arson of the building.
What about the real estate value for private property that is the houses and apartments in the vicinity of an ebola case, when that property value
also goes right into the ebola toilet because people no longer want to live there, and what about the extreme costs for decontamination that may be
prohibitive to a point that lower valued properties are then simply burned to the ground?
The disruption of ordinary life and the economic hit that is associated with ebola goes way beyond the actual impact in biological effect for the
disease itself. When ebola comes to a neighborhood it turns that neighborhood to shit overnight.
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franklyn
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@ zts16
That's exactly how the AIDS pandemic got started. I remember in 1984 when it was casually mentioned nothing to worry it's a gay disease ( contagion
was largely due to their outrageously promiscuous conduct ). No one had yet thought about blood transfusion. I recall one time I was racing down a
flight of stairs hand on the banister and felt a tug on my hand , moments after I felt it was wet , and saw I was bleeding. How many before me could
have cut themselves there in the same way. No need to be stuck with a needle of an intravenous drug user for someone to be at risk if contagion is
present in the environment.
@ Brain&Force
Sure do , and it didn't happen because half of the population was vaccinated against it in 1976
http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/03/da...
Just because one can immunize against flu , it does not follow that one can for ebola
which has no treatment apart from a few anti viral drugs having trivial effect.
@
Chemosynthesis
It's natural host is monkeys. People in the afflicted countries eat monkeys.
.
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Chemosynthesis
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Rosco, I was just discussing that very topic. Although I ended it by asking an accountant to watch out for what property taxes on some of those big
ticket items (plane/yacht) could decrease to.
edit: although that was far more lighthearted than I could make of the nuclear disaster premise Bert came up with.
| Quote: | | @ Chemosynthesis It's natural host is monkeys. People in the afflicted countries eat monkeys.[/font] . |
Thank you, Franklyn, I do not mean host (which can include "spillover hosts" such as apes), but specifically natural reservoir, which is largely
asymptomatic or non-pathogenic, but serves as a carrier vector such that the virus doesn't burn out. Bats are thought to be an Ebola reservoir, but
data is not conclusive. There may be others.
EHF is generally far too lethal in a fairly short period of time for primates to perpetuate Ebola or related diseases (Marburg, RAVN, etc.),
particularly with the long periods of apparent non-outbreak. It should burn out if reservoirs are not established. Plenty of bats in the U.S.
[Edited on 18-10-2014 by Chemosynthesis]
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Rosco Bodine
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Bargain real estate is available in the Chernobyl area.
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Amos
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| Quote: Originally posted by franklyn | @ zts16
That's exactly how the AIDS pandemic got started. I remember in 1984 when it was casually mentioned nothing to worry it's a gay disease ( contagion
was largely due to their outrageously promiscuous conduct ). No one had yet thought about blood transfusion. I recall one time I was racing down a
flight of stairs hand on the banister and felt a tug on my hand , moments after I felt it was wet , and saw I was bleeding. How many before me could
have cut themselves there in the same way. No need to be stuck with a needle of an intravenous drug user for someone to be at risk if contagion is
present in the environment.
@ Brain&Force
Sure do , and it didn't happen because half of the population was vaccinated against it in 1976
http://archive.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/03/da...
Just because one can immunize against flu , it does not follow that one can for ebola
which has no treatment apart from a few anti viral drugs having trivial effect.
@
Chemosynthesis
It's natural host is monkeys. People in the afflicted countries eat monkeys.
. |
There are a few things wrong here right now. Ebola and HIV are not even close to the same thing. A person inflicted with Ebola has the disease for
around 30 days or less, and for the majority of this time, they show VERY, VERY obvious symptoms of being sick; this is a natural deterrent to most
potential victims of the disease. On the other hand, someone with HIV has the disease for the remainder of their life, and on the outside they look
like any other person, giving them a much better ability to inflict the disease upon others throughout the time they're infected. Ebola has a definite
survival rate, which may well be quite a bit higher in the developed world than we have seen elsewhere, and those that do survive seem to gain
immunity to it. Antibodies from their blood have also been shown to speed the treatment of other individuals(http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/S18.l...), making the disease treatable, even curable, unlike HIV). Finally, HIV as a
contagion can't exist "in the environment" as it is unable to live outside a host's body. No matter who cut themselves on the stairs there, you
couldn't obtain HIV this way, unless their still-warm blood was laying there in wait.
Also, I'd like to point out that while humans mostly seem to get Ebola after contact with other primate species, research points to Bats being the
primary vector, transmitting it first to monkeys and other primates, which in turn give it to us.
[Edited on 10-18-2014 by No Tears Only Dreams Now]
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franklyn
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@ No Tears Only Dreams Now
So what are you saying ?
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Rosco Bodine
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| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | | Quote: | | Failure of the government of the U.S. to ban travel of persons potentially exposed to ebola or any other of the Class A agents without reliable
screening and quarantine is a dereliction of duty that is criminal negligence and depraved indifference and is tantamount to conduct of a bioterrorism
attack on the citizens being conducted by the government itself. It is a breach of national security. |
Like Bengazi, another opportunity for America's RWNJs to threaten the black man with impeachment and get him the hell out of their White
House??? |
If there is a sign that says "Whites Only" at the White House then I think the voters missed it during the past two elections, so playing the race
card would seem like the desperate misdirection argument of scoundrels. That worn out sleight of hand political magic trick no longer gets any
mileage.
However, the farcical attempt to transmogrify that message into being an equivalent of racist politics with a travel ban without regard to race for
persons from ebola infested areas is an over reaching of political correctness that is complete idiocy that would only seem rational to a liberal
progressive mind.
Yes isolation and quarantine is a form of segregation and discrimination, but so is triage and many other rational risk management strategies which
are entirely sensible and should be done because the priority concerns are weighty enough to justify the exclusion of all lesser considerations.
This national security public health concern is not about right or left or black or white but is about smart survival thinking for the living versus
being stuck on stupid and dead.
If that requires "regime change" then yeah Biden is looking better by the minute as a twenty-fifth amendment relief for the incompetent idiot in
charge now.
What does he plan to do next when there is a national strike by medical care providers, will he fire them all like was done with the air traffic
controllers? Get real.
What will be done when public schools are closed and parents won't send their children to be exposed to diseases of every variety that have been
introduced by the unlawful introduction of disease vectors who are illegal alien children?
Will the government confiscate all the children and put all the parents in reeducation camps?
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