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Author: Subject: Um, okay....freon anyone?
12AX7
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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 12:03
Um, okay....freon anyone?


I just picked up a bottle of freon, about 5-10 pounds, was laying on the street corner, I guess it fell out of a truck? Says chlorodifluoromethane on it, turning it upside-down and opening the valve freezes anything :P
(And no I don't care about the ozone layer :P )

Any use for this (besides making my own refrigerator)? Also, is there a "weirdest haul" thread somewhere I can submit this in? :D

Tim
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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 12:26


Wow you lucky luck guy I hate you!:P Nah, just kidding.

Maybe we need a random thread(like at APC)....




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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 15:31
sell it


I understand that the chemical you've come across is quite expensive in the US due to bans on further manufacture/importation. Sell it and buy something you really want with the money you receive.



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MadHatter
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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 17:16
Freon


Freon goes for about $50 a pound here in the states because it's all recycled.



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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 19:02


Said cpd is R-22, not yet illegal to produce until 2010, but then only for new equipment, until production is banned entirely in 2020 IIRC, provided the country does not collapse by then.

If turned upside down and only gas comes out, well then it is very nearly empty. They are sold in green canisters with a single one-way valve, if it has two valves on it, it could have something less than virgin R-22 in it.

Yeah, hoard soon-to-be-banned refrigerants for future inflation. It isn't particularly expensive right now.

It actually has a very low ozone depletion potential.
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12AX7
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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 19:13


Ooo, hoarding...good point :D

It's about half full of liquid. On its side it gives gas sometimes, so...yeah. ;)

It's a non-refillable type, one valve, flare fitting by the looks of it. Missing the cover cap mentioned on the label :(

Tim
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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 19:24


Low potential for ozone depletion? Are you serious? CFC's are the major contributor to ozone depletion. Something like one Cl- anion can destroy up to 10000 O3 molecules, and this is a catalytic reaction. I guess it's not the same for chlorodifluoromethane.

[Edited on 10-5-2005 by tom haggen]




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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 20:08


I think the figure is 100000.

Yes, R-22 is different, it has 1/20 the ODP of R-11:
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/ods.html
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/ods2.html

The schedule:
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/22phaseout.html

The replacements are all crap, just like the R-134a replacement for R-12.

The big villain in CFC releases was the foam manufacturers, btw, not refrigeration...Even now, commercial refrigeration systems are allowed to lose 35% of their refrigerant a year before repairs are required, these have hundreds of pounds of refrigerant in them...The restrictions on home and auto systems are not sensible, they contibute a very negligible amount of refrigerant to the atmosphere.
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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 20:46
R-12


I should have said that R-12 is recycled. I can still buy R-22 at an auto parts store in 1 LB cans.
I have to present my EPA 609 license everytime I do so this stuff is not exactly OTC for consumers.
The EPA has been considering the licensing requirement for even R-134a because they claim it
contributes to global warming.




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12AX7
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[*] posted on 9-5-2005 at 21:29


I'm just wondering when they outlaw the air we breathe, because it causes global warming too. Oh wait, the Kyoto treaty phases out CO2 emissions...and several countries have already passed it...d'oh...

(IIRC, I think that's correct...)

But anyway, I digress...politics suck :D

Tim
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[*] posted on 10-6-2005 at 23:20
Freon


12AX7, I'd say look for a buyer for that freon. Right now I'm waiting on a case of "AutoFrost",
R-406a. It's an EPA approved substitute for R-12 and does a better job using less material.
In a case of 12 cans, I average less than $8 per 9.6 oz can. One can of this is roughly equal
to 16 oz R-12. Unfortunately, even R406a requires EPA certification to purchase or use.

R-134a works well until the temperature exceeds 95 F. Then it won't cool shit !

BTW, if you decide to recharge an R-12 system, it's best to charge on the suction side which
is the blue line. Turn the cylinder upside down before charging so it enters the system as
a liquid.




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[*] posted on 11-6-2005 at 14:17


I'd hang on to the Freon. Put a brass flare cap on the tank valve, or when you go to use it in 5 years it may be empty. I still have some virgin R-12 in the 30# tanks. My 'fleet' of vintage vehicles require it. I've also heard straight propane makes an a usable replacement for R-12, but then there is the danger if you get a leak in the evaporator.
I'd caution people not to keep an upside down tank on an inlet suction valve too long, as you could pull liquid right into the compressor and when that piston comes up, something will give, and it won't be the liquid. I've grown impatient on a hot day and turned the tank upside down for a few seconds to 'speed up' the transfer, but then turned it back again. You don't want to 'hydraulic' your compressor. Another trick is to cool the condenser with a garden hose, especially on a hot day. To think we used to use freon to flush gasoline tanks before we soldered them. Why not, at 79 cents a can?




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[*] posted on 11-6-2005 at 21:43
Freon


Mr. Wizard, I too remember when R-12 was that cheap. I never worried about overfilling
the system because it was always empty or near empty and I'd just pop in 16 oz can which
is what it held.




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[*] posted on 12-6-2005 at 03:21


Quote:
Originally posted by 12AX7
was laying on the street corner, I guess it fell out of a truck?
Tim



Yea.. right..! :P
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[*] posted on 23-6-2005 at 15:16


Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. WizardPut a brass flare cap on the tank valve

Freone is said to react with brass and with magnesium alloys. Be careful:D
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12AX7
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[*] posted on 23-6-2005 at 20:48


I hope not, the valve on it is brass! I can understand magnesium though.

Tim




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