Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Just some thing to watch out for.
my nootloss
Harmless
*




Posts: 39
Registered: 23-5-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 00:55
Just some thing to watch out for.


Hey guys I have been looking at the other posts and such and it seams that most of you are getting your H2SO4 form the drain cleaner. Well that’s fine for some stuff, but you should all know it has Fe in it, that’s what gives it that dark tint.

Just some thing to watch out for.

p.s This was typed late at night sorry for the spelling

[Edited on 5-6-2005 by my nootloss]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
guy
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 982
Registered: 14-4-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Catalytic!

[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 12:13


If it has Fe in it, why wouldn't it dissolve and form Fe ions?



View user's profile View All Posts By User
Nerro
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 596
Registered: 29-9-2004
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Whatever...

[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 13:18


It does dissolve... It forms FeSO4 that dissolves in the H2SO4



#261501 +(11351)- [X]

the \"bishop\" came to our church today
he was a fucken impostor
never once moved diagonally

courtesy of bash
View user's profile View All Posts By User
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
*******




Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline

Mood: crystalline

[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 13:20


More importantly, my nootloss, how did you come to that conclusion? How can you say that every drain cleaner has this problem?



Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
my nootloss
Harmless
*




Posts: 39
Registered: 23-5-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 15:18


Well you see when they make H2SO4 (most of it) it gets in it from the manufacturing process (the stuff that is pure is made with SO3, so if that make it any other way it will have Fe in it).
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MadHatter
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1104
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline

Mood: Enjoying retirement

[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 20:39
Rooto


My Rooto brand of sulphuric acid drain cleaner is slightly amber in color - not a dark tint.
Is it possible that this manufacturer is using a better production process ? The Roebic
"Drain Flow" I've used in the past appears to have carbon particles in it. No problem !
I filtered it through glass wool before using for a nitric acid vacuum distillation.




Power comes from the barrel of a gun !
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Darkblade48
National Hazard
****




Posts: 411
Registered: 27-3-2005
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-6-2005 at 21:05


I have some Clear Line drain cleaner, and it happens to bed red (!!!) in colour.

I have no clue what it is myself, maybe someone could explain what it was?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
darkflame89
National Hazard
****




Posts: 255
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: With probability 1, "somewhere" in this
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 05:08


That dark red tint(or just amber) might not be iron(III) ions, it could be some other organic substance unknown to us? I mean that red coloration must be one of the key ingredients, not some impurity. So, if its really due to iron(III) ions, what purpose does it serve in drain cleaning? Coloring the dirt and grease red? An organic enzyme or something might be a more plausible conclusion, would it not?



Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pyridinium
National Hazard
****




Posts: 258
Registered: 18-5-2005
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: cupric

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 08:10


Quote:
Originally posted by darkflame89
So, if its really due to iron(III) ions, what purpose does it serve in drain cleaning? Coloring the dirt and grease red? An organic enzyme or something might be a more plausible conclusion, would it not?


Iron is a contaminant of much industrial H2SO4, so maybe they just left it in there because it's much cheaper than investing the kilowatt-hours to distill the acid.

I don't know of any enzyme that could survive strong H2SO4, especially not sitting on a shelf for prolonged periods.

It is possible there is some other organic substance there. I'm sure there's some dye.

Since hot, conc. H2SO4 can destroy organic matter, you would see the color disappear or go very pale after heating it to just below boiling and keeping it there for about 24 hours.

You would also see black (carbon) start to accumulate on the sides of the boiling flask after several hours.

It's not something I'd advise you do, though, unless you have a good fume hood.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
evil_lurker
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 767
Registered: 12-3-2005
Location: United States of Elbonia
Member Is Offline

Mood: On the wagon again.

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 08:15


I had a link to one of the mfg's web sites that breaks each product down but can't seem to find it at the moment.

Anyways, Liquid Lightning is NOT a good sulfuric acid source, it has way too many buffers, almost to the point of it being filled with soap or something. In fact, you can spill it on your skin, and have 5 minutes to wash it off!!! :o

Rooto is good, but be aware that it is recycled acid from steel pickling plants and what not. Most of the iron and what not is precipitated, but some will always remain.

Out of about 10 or so diffrent products, I can only think of one that was virgin concentrated sulfuric, most were recycled and several had buffers making them useless to the amateaur chemist.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
********




Posts: 3331
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 11:04


Quote:

Well you see when they make H2SO4 (most of it) it gets in it from the manufacturing process (the stuff that is pure is made with SO3, so if that make it any other way it will have Fe in it).


What the? Most sulfuric acid is made from sulfur by the contact process, which doesn't involve any iron at all.

Recycled acid is bound to be more expensive because of the purification and concentration required, whereas the contact process provides waste heat that can be used for other reactions in the same chemical plant.




One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
FrankRizzo
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 200
Registered: 9-2-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 12:34


Didn't we come to the conclusion, in another thread, that adding 30% H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> to form Caros acid will clear up most drain cleaner sulfuric?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
unionised
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 4295
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 13:07


"Recycled acid is bound to be more expensive because of the purification and concentration required"

If that were true, it wouldn't get recycled.

Used pickling acid has a fair bit of iron in it but, if the water is boiled off it's still fine for "rough" use. Since the alternative is to dispose of it (which is expensive) boiling off the water and selling it cuts the losses.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
my nootloss
Harmless
*




Posts: 39
Registered: 23-5-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 15:08


Quote:
Originally posted by unionised


Used pickling acid has a fair bit of iron in it but, if the water is boiled off it's still fine for "rough" use. Since the alternative is to dispose of it (which is expensive) boiling off the water and selling it cuts the losses.


This "rough use" is the drain cleaner

If you guys do not trust me then ask you self “why would they use good acid to poor down my drain?”

[Edited on 6-6-2005 by my nootloss]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pyridinium
National Hazard
****




Posts: 258
Registered: 18-5-2005
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: cupric

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 15:22


Quote:
Originally posted by my nootloss

This "rough use" is the drain cleaner

If you guys do not trust me then ask you self “why would they use good acid to poor down my drain?”


I trust you about it. Drain cleaner is a pretty rough use. But... this isn't going to be settled until we get hold of some and analyze it.

Get some, put a carefully weighed amount in a pre-weighed, dried crucible, evaporate to dryness slowly over heat (slowly to prevent spattering), then roast the residue to dryness. Cool to room temp in a vacuum dessicator.

Weigh the dried solids by difference. It might be helpful to do a washing of these solids with water, then a careful re-evaporation and re-roasting in case there are Na, K, Ca ions in there.

Then we could find out what percentage of metal oxides are in the stuff.

Don't mind my lack of detail here, my blood Gluc. is dropping and can't think straight at the moment.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
my nootloss
Harmless
*




Posts: 39
Registered: 23-5-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 16:50


I looked up my drain cleaner (not acid, thanks neutrino) with the us patent office, there was a lot of crap in there, and the % of acid was like 70 to 98, so all the numbers it gave where not to exact, I suggest you do what the guy above me said and just test it out, but I would just look at the temperature of what’s boiling off to make sure all your boiling off is water and acid.

It would be nice if someone took the time and did that with the 3 most common acids that we use. Oh and you might want to shake the acid up, to make sure that and stuff at the bottom of the acid bottle is moved around so you can get the best %'s for your acid. (Don’t shake to hard because those bottles are only rated for 4-5 years, and you don’t want 1 gallon of H2SO4 dumping out on to your nice floor. I know a guy who knows a guy that happened to but it was HNO3, and it was the second floor of his house… need I say more)

[Edited on 7-6-2005 by my nootloss]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
neutrino
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: oscillating

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 17:19


A patent on acid?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
my nootloss
Harmless
*




Posts: 39
Registered: 23-5-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 6-6-2005 at 17:23


Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino
A patent on acid?


good call, thanks
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top