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Author: Subject: legality of explosives in uk?
deltawars
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 07:50
legality of explosives in uk?


I want to synthesize some TNT only about 20-50 grams so I can test the power of it, but I'm not sure if it is legal in the England.

I found this, it says

" 9. (1) Subject to paragraph (2), no person shall manufacture explosives unless he holds a licence for that manufacture and complies with the conditions of that licence. "

and then under that it says

" (2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to —

(a)the manufacture of explosives for the purpose of laboratory analysis, testing, demonstration or experimentation (but not for practical use or sale) where the total quantity of explosives being manufactured at any time does not exceed 100 grams, but nothing in this sub-paragraph shall be taken as authorising any acquisition or keeping of explosives for which an explosives certificate is required by virtue of regulation 7 of those Regulations, without such a certificate; "

I only want to do some experimentation and demonstration, does this mean i don't need a licence if it is under 100 grams or is it the rules of the licence?

Sorry but I find it a little confusing.

[Edited on 3-11-2014 by deltawars]
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macckone
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 09:57


You should probably consult a local attorney.

With recent legal changes in the UK, my understanding is the required strength nitric acid is illegal without a license. So although it may be legal to make the explosive itself, the required chemicals may be illegal.

If you aren't 100% sure that what you are doing is legal then you probably should not do it. Many people have been harassed and arrested even though they are doing nothing wrong. If there is any question the outcome is likely to be even worse. Chemistry is a dangerous hobby from a legalistic perspective. And producing explosives is dangerous from a physical perspective as well.
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deltawars
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 10:57


I didn't even know about the nitric acid until you told me, your only allowed to buy 3%!!! wtf :mad: and in 2016 I will need a licence just to possess it, well I'm going to try to apply for some licences.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosi...
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Chemosynthesis
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[*] posted on 3-11-2014 at 11:21


I recommend contacting a barrister. There could be all kinds of hidden laws there.

It may be possible that demonstration falls under category 4 or more restrictive classes of fireworks.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/explosives/
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Marvin
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[*] posted on 4-11-2014 at 16:52


TNT is not a good one to start with. It's toxic to your liver, it's quite stubborn to make and it's difficult to set off. If you want to send a shell through plate armour and have it not prematurely detonate TNT is ideal. For home use, not so much. Bluntly this suggests to me you are closer to a Looney Tunes viewer than a qualified chemist.

50 grams is a lot. Someone did a calculation on E&W that suggested 100g of explosive at arms length would be fatal from the blast wave alone (and it would normally be shrapnel that kills you). I can't vouch for that but previous experience has made me nervous of going above a few grams of a primary. I would want something very trustworthy before I started putting a cap in a sizeable secondary. It's a simple thing to think about a tremendously dangerous thing to do outside of commercially manufactured materials. If your goal is to make loud bangs or craters in your garden I suggest black powder. Go high order only if you NEED a det wave.

The previous explosives law lasted something like 130 years, MSER 2005 didn't last 10, you need to read the new one. Headline stuff is that you can make that amount of explosive but you cannot keep it for more than 24 hours without a storage licence (my current understanding). There are also guidelines that are not in the legislation that you have to follow and constitute good practice. Most people playing in this area wanting to stay legal would get an acquire and keep licence (previously under COER 1991 now replaced). The licencing body for that is normally the local police but it varies by region. The new licence for precursors is something I am still looking in to.

Chemosynthesis is technically correct when he says the demonstration would be illegal under the cat 4 rules. This is almost certainly a mistake, in that the change aimed to prevent yobs buying display fireworks. By using legislation intended to regulate sale to criminalise possession some of the safety clauses that should never apply to possession and normal use now do.

There is a lot to read and understand before you pick up a bottle of nitric acid and you should read all of it until you do. There were big changes in the law just last month so in many ways you are asking for advice at the worst possible time, many of us are in the same boat.
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strontiumred
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[*] posted on 6-11-2014 at 09:18


Hi Deltawars,

The <100g exception only applies to manufacturing (You don't need a manufacturing licence for <100g for testing or demonstration purposes).

BUT... You cannot make ANY quantity of explosives unless you have a licence to acquire (or to acquire and keep) them.

Sorry, but you would be breaking the law if you made any quantity of TNT.

This might help clarify things: http://www.pyrosociety.org.uk/media/er-2014-good-practise-gu...
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Thanatops1s
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[*] posted on 1-12-2014 at 20:14


I can't tell you anything about the laws, but I wouldn't use the word "only". Twenty to fifty grams is a decent amount. Especially if you planned on detonating it all at once.

Also, unless you already have a good amount of experience with things like this, I would both choose something other than TNT for a first time synthesis, and make a heck of a lot less than 20-50g.

How did you plan on detonating it too?
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[*] posted on 2-12-2014 at 02:10


If you are going to do this, I would do it with the full knowledge and consent of the authorities. You will need concentrated nitric acid if you are going to make it yourself, in which case you will need to apply for new license anyway, which will be a good way to make your intentions plain. As you mention, the law is largely on your side*, so rather than do this behind anyone's back I would seek their approval, which I think you should be able to obtain with proper legal representation. If you do try and avoid going down the proper channels then I'd be concerned that you may have terrorism laws used against you, if only out of spite for not consulting with them first! But then again, people break the law every day of the week, so why must you be a saint?! :D

In your case, need of nitric acid may force your decision; unless you can find another route using a nitrate, which probably you could if you really wanted to.

*In hindsight, I don't know.



[Edited on 2-12-2014 by forgottenpassword]
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Antiswat
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[*] posted on 8-12-2014 at 06:40


if you start talking to government officials about these sorts of things and they deny you license then you may be straight on their favorite watch list

for first nitration you should attempt nitrocellulose, very hard to make runoff, not very dangerous runoff (relatively) easy to wash and a rather interesting end product




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