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Author: Subject: Laws Affecting Legitimate Amateur Science
The_Davster
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[*] posted on 13-10-2005 at 21:13


Notice how "manufacture of explosives" is not a charge there, despite them knowing he produced it himself, but possession of them are. Interesting how you can make them but not own them...:o
The highlighted part really pisses me off...:mad:
Also interesting how they manipulate the public by calling a 16yr old a child. Weapons factory wtf? I bet the only similarities to "military-type C4 plastic explosive" is that it was a plastique. I doubt he had the means to det anything that would be chlorate/vaseline based.

:mad:




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Magpie
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[*] posted on 14-10-2005 at 10:07


This is just another example of society's senseless persecution of kewls.



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vulture
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[*] posted on 14-10-2005 at 11:50


Lol, the almighty double standards. Chemistry experiments at home? Oh no! Working in a government lab to make more performant explosives to bomb the shit out of subversive countries? Hell yeah!

I've told the US citizens on this board before...unless something is going to chance soon, science will be reduced to state and religion approved fearmongering propaganda in your country.

[Edited on 14-10-2005 by vulture]




One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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neutrino
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[*] posted on 14-10-2005 at 13:49


That kid could be in jail for a long time. The courts in parts of this country just love to try minors as adults (even putting some on death row). Sad state this country’s in…
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[*] posted on 14-10-2005 at 14:57


Fortunately he's in Canada, and his generally accessible police record will be squelched when he turns 18, and he probably won't do any/any serious time barring any priors.
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Chris The Great
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[*] posted on 14-10-2005 at 21:55


Plus it's just possession of explosives, a big fine would be the worst I would expect for him. Jail is unlikely, especially since they found no evidence of malicious intent.

But calling the cops if your kid starts performing chemistry? :mad:

That part really got my going.
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The_Davster
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[*] posted on 14-10-2005 at 22:15


We do not know if he had any interest in chemistry from that article, only in explosives and based on the alleged choice of explosive, likely he was a kewl. The shot against amateur chemistry seems to have been added in as simply, like you said, fearmongering.



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[*] posted on 16-10-2005 at 12:15
bomb making etc


My contribution to this discussion is that here - in Northern Ireland - to a large extent its easier to get stuff on a small scale since the ceasefire 10 years ago. Plus the police have been used to breaking up real xplosive factories. Like the recent stuff in london had shown its not hard to get the ingredients - over here it was the 50kg bags of farm fertiliser that were used with diesel all easily got. Biggest problem now is buying fireworks - theyre illegal again but easily got - as i presume they are in the states. And as people over here have shown, fireworks make great anti personell weapons - hence the ban.
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[*] posted on 16-10-2005 at 13:53


@ the mother thing... I have the same issue with me doing science too. A week ago I was cleaning my glasses with some ethanol (because grease stains were hampering my vision) and I got a lecture on how ethanol is carcenogenic(sp). Even after showing a couple msds sheets on ethanol she still was ranting off about how I will grow up w/ various cancers.

I have similar issues with friends too however its the your a terrorist. People want something to blame and guess what they point the finger at chemist. Why? Because the media says that bombs n shit can be made from simple sodium chloride and water(random example)? So when some technical shit is throw around we look at the intellectuals and accuse them of trying to destroy civilization.

Apparently everything gives you cancer these days. I think no matter how "stupid" one might be it is best to keep your cool and logical explain whatever. That way when they still rant off at you like an idiot you can think to yourself, "Wow humanity is really fucked."

I believe even after the terrorists are "defeated" we won't get are rights back to do chemistry freely. As this could inspire terrorism:rolleyes:
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FPMAGEL
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[*] posted on 22-10-2005 at 01:09


They do have a piont, if there were no amature chemist and libarys and internet were blocked, there would be no terrorism, just people punching other people in the face, and a 1 week stay in hosptial.
People are like bottles with small holes in the bottom, if you add water to quickly the bottle will overflow.
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vulture
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[*] posted on 22-10-2005 at 04:58


Quote:

They do have a piont, if there were no amature chemist and libarys and internet were blocked, there would be no terrorism, just people punching other people in the face, and a 1 week stay in hosptial.


Hey, smartass, neither would there be a hospital as hospitals depend on science? Hmm?




One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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neutrino
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[*] posted on 22-10-2005 at 07:03


>They do have a piont, if there were no amature chemist and libarys and internet were blocked, there would be no terrorism

Total Bullshit.

You’re saying:

“There was no terrorism before the internet.” I guess you’ve never opened a history textbook.

“Terrorists get all their information from libraries.” Again, you’re incredible ignorance is showing. This is like saying that if stores stop selling bottled water, the entire human race will die of dehydration. These people are professionals, they don’t rely on just one source for their information.

“Amateur chemistry causes terrorism.” I don’t even know where to begin here. Anyone else care to try?

> people punching other people in the face, and a 1 week stay in hosptial

Care to test that theory? Please post your address and someone will be right over.:P
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chloric1
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[*] posted on 22-10-2005 at 08:10
Alternatives


Hello all! Anyone now about practicing in Chile or Argentina. Was informed by my wife, aho is Colombian, that sodium nitrate is readily available in her country. Colombia is a great country but there are some antiamericans there kidnapping and killing so I would try to not move there.



In the theater of life its nice to know where the exit doors are located.
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MagicJigPipe
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[*] posted on 31-7-2009 at 19:44


From ProjectGHB.org:

Quote:

GHB: Gamma hydroxy butyrate or Gamma hydroxybutyric acid, Sodium Oxybate

Made From: gamma butyrolactone (GBL) and Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide - basically it is degreasing solvent or floor stripper mixed with drain cleaner.


[Edited on 8-1-2009 by MagicJigPipe]




"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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497
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[*] posted on 1-8-2009 at 11:54


Quote:
basically it is degreasing solvent or floor stripper mixed with drain cleaner.


Oh man.. That made me laugh pretty hard...

Basically salt is sodium and chlorine!! Both of which are highly toxic and deadly!!!

They will say anything that they think will scare people away from it..

Maybe I'll email them and tell them they forgot to mention its a fucking FDA approved prescription drug in the US and many other countries... Yeah, and it's just degreaser solvent and drain cleaner..

Hilarious!

Quote:
What is GHB? A modern rave party scene drug used to get high. Also used as a date rape drug. It can kill.


About as accurate as saying:
What is water? A modern chemical that is toxic in inhaled or ingested in excess. Also used to make drugs and bombs. It can kill.

Bullshit. I hate those people.

[Edited on 1-8-2009 by 497]
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 1-8-2009 at 12:36


Quote: Originally posted by 497  


Maybe I'll email them and tell them they forgot to mention its a fucking FDA approved prescription drug in the US and many other countries...


Oh, is it now? That would be news to the FDA, which banned it in 1990, wouldn't it?

Seems like that website has no monopoly on misinformation.
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497
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[*] posted on 1-8-2009 at 13:24


Really now? Ever heard of Xyrem? Read before you speak.

And you're right, there's plenty of misinformation to go around. It's just a good example.

[Edited on 1-8-2009 by 497]
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 1-8-2009 at 13:42


FDA banned GHB as a nutritional supplement in 1990. It was banned until FDA approved it for limited use in 2002. But it's not a prescription drug that any physician can prescribe and any pharmacy can provide.

Both prescribing physicians and patients must be specifically registered, and only a specific central pharmacy can fill the prescription. There are multiple restrictions on its use. Physicians are not allowed to prescribe the drug except for a specific medical condition. This is not the meaning of a prescription drug, it's more akin to an investigational drug.

With those caveats, it is an approved drug. Point conceded.

[Edited on 1-8-2009 by entropy51]
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[*] posted on 3-8-2009 at 11:36



Quote:

Sputnik crisis


Yea, some claims are quite frivolous, especially GMO. My mom is dead scared of me having a lab. Thank god she lived in India where they still use Mercury to cure syphilis and clean toilets with conc H2SO4. The US keeps listing everything. In fact, if I remember correctly, not long ago some kid working at a State lab made a whole bunch of meth.

There is a rice that was Genetically Modified to provide Vitamin A for African children who could not get enough of it. They spliced the gene out of a carrot and inserted it into the rice plant. There's all this argument labeling GMOs as "toxic". IT'S A GOD DAMN CARROT. WOULD YOU AVOID EATING A DAMN CARROT?! IS A CARROT THAT TOXIC?!

[Edited on 10-4-2009 by Polverone]
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[*] posted on 4-8-2009 at 09:20


I've started to do Chemistry as soon as I could read. And I strongly believe it's a crime to have laws against amateur experimentalists. Giving someone irresponsible a driver's license can pose a more serious danger towards our fellow man, than someone who wants to learn something amazing!:mad:

[Edited on 4-8-2009 by donlaszlow]
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UnintentionalChaos
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[*] posted on 24-9-2009 at 19:42


Quote: Originally posted by Rich_Insane  

Quote:

Sputnik crisis


Yea, some claims are quite frivolous, especially GMO. My mom is dead scared of me having a lab. Thank god she lived in India where they still use Mercury to cure syphilis and clean toilets with conc H2SO4. The US keeps listing everything. In fact, if I remember correctly, not long ago some kid working at a State lab made a whole bunch of meth.

There is a rice that was Genetically Modified to provide Vitamin A for African children who could not get enough of it. They spliced the gene out of a carrot and inserted it into the rice plant. There's all this argument labeling GMOs as "toxic". IT'S A GOD DAMN CARROT. WOULD YOU AVOID EATING A DAMN CARROT?! IS A CARROT THAT TOXIC?!


Actually, there are genes from daffodils and one from a bacterium.

I think this basically sums up the stupidity involved: http://www.goldenrice.org/Content2-How/how4_regul.html

[Edited on 10-4-2009 by Polverone]




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'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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[*] posted on 30-9-2009 at 23:46


Thanks for the link. I'm off to do some reading now. Glad that you shared it here.








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[*] posted on 3-10-2009 at 20:01


I think the only way government will ever resolve this problem of amatuer chemists is complete overhaul on personal thought. Keep everyone on a strict schedule, strict diet, strict excercise regime- this would also solve the obesity problem in U.S.- how will government keep us all that obedient you ask? Simple. It will take about a dozen years of experimentation but the right combination of amphetamines and other drugs in our food supply, our water supply, even building and other random products to keep us fairly insensitive to our current pursuits. Of course, the question arises- well who would be in control of all this? Well the beauty of this program is that nobody would be in control. Everybody would simply follow strict codes of what they are supposed to do- codes that in themselves reinforce themselves. Like a computer program. Of course any bug could send the state into complete anarchy.
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[*] posted on 4-10-2009 at 07:29


For a minute there, I thought you were being serious. . .
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[*] posted on 4-10-2009 at 09:14


Political discussion removed.

[Edited on 10-4-2009 by Polverone]
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