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Author: Subject: Purity Of Ebay Nitroethane?
chem50
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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 10:08
Purity Of Ebay Nitroethane?


Hi guys i want to know if this nitroethane on ebay is pure in peoples opinion here?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1L-Tip-Blender-Feilhilfe-Nitroetha...

I know its impossible to say for sure but has any of you ordered nitroethane directly from a nail and beauty store on ebay?

Also whats the best way to test the purity of nitroethane? like you can put nitric acid with copper and observe the reaction.

This is for completely legal purposes in my country nitroethane is not a scheduled chemical and is legal for sale as im not in the USA.

Cheers guys :cool:
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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 10:21


Oh? And what country are you in?
More information please, it's going to take us a while before we trust you on such a topic.




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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 10:36


There is a thread on the german site about this article, it's fake:
Kann das Nitroethan sein?

Sad story: Gittemaus is accused for the synthesis of illicit drugs. However, he was innocent. The police didn't find anything in that direction, in addition the test was a false positive test for amphetamine. It was the end of their chemistry hobby.

This 100% nitroethane is (probably) fake and I wonder that they mention that this is still pure nitroethane. The police seems to be uninterested in catching the real criminals. It's illigal to sell fake articles but they don't do anything. :(




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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 13:06


2-3 years back this supplier did indeed sell real nitroethane in their product. It was labelled as 98% IIRC.
They have changed the pictures since then with plastic bottles without labels and with the 100% claim in the description.
I can't speak for what they're currently offering though, you'll just have to suck it and see.

A different supplier years ago sold a similar product as nitroethane but that turned out to be acetone.
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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 14:02


It's an old, old addage:

"If it seems too good to be true, it isn't true"




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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 16:05


JAVA : anymore info on that case? I have, how could we say, "a new-found interest in these type of cases".
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chem50
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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 16:40


Appreciate all the replies :)

To elementcollector - im in a EU country that does not forbid the sale of nitroethane. Im sure you will know that nitroethane is not illegal in the majority of the EU. Im looking for around 100ml of nitroethane not a gallon lol.

Now im thinking the only real way to get 100ml of real nitroethane is to synthesize my own. Ive checked most of the synthesis methods online and the only one that really looks doable with my current chemistry knowledge is the sodium ethyl sulfate and metal nitrite method.

And yes ive hit another brick wall! i cant seem to find sodium ethyl sulfate! any ideas?

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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 16:43


Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
Oh? And what country are you in?
More information please, it's going to take us a while before we trust you on such a topic.


You need more information to give him a piece of knowledge? You need to trust him to tell him if Nitroethane is 100% pure or not?
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chem50
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[*] posted on 9-11-2014 at 17:10


Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25  
Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1  
Oh? And what country are you in?
More information please, it's going to take us a while before we trust you on such a topic.


You need more information to give him a piece of knowledge? You need to trust him to tell him if Nitroethane is 100% pure or not?


Exactly mate :) and from what ive heard nitroethane isn't even illegal in the USA! watched yes but not technically illegal. Again this is just what ive heard as im not in the US. In the country where i am right now part of the EU its for sure not illegal even fisher.co.uk stock it! although again thats a full liter.

You by any chance know any legitimate places to find sodium ethyl sulfate?

There was a ebay seller who stocked nitroethane i came across them sometime last week but they seem to have no active listings now.

[Edited on 10-11-2014 by chem50]
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[*] posted on 10-11-2014 at 02:00


Listings of nitroethane come and go on eBay but you can often contact the seller and they're happy to sell their unlisted products. A polish supplier comes to mind.

Or just wait until they or others re-list it and they will do that eventually.
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[*] posted on 10-11-2014 at 08:55


Quote: Originally posted by MrBlank1  
JAVA : anymore info on that case? I have, how could we say, "a new-found interest in these type of cases".


What do you like to know exactly ?

I didn't buy the product, but I do know that you can make a few mL of it. The problem is that the nitrite anion is a ambident nucleophile that mostly attack with with it's oxygen atoms, instead of the lone pair of nitrogen. Aprotic solvents like DMF, THF,.. might help to increase the yield if the bromoethane doesn't react with the solvent (like in DMSO).

Another problem is the molar mass of nitroethane compared to say bromoethane. This will be very tuff (and long) to make 100 mL nitroethane.

Yet another problem is the high vapour pressure of nitroethane, it's volatile.

If you just react bromoethane with sodium nitrite, then the yields are less then 50% (the other compound that get formed is (oxonitroso)ethane AKA ethyl nitrite).


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[*] posted on 10-11-2014 at 19:05


If you are in the U.S., that Nitroethane might as well be on Mars. You might occasionally be able to acquire Nitroethane legally within the U.S.. Check your locally newspapers for reports of flying pig migrations.

To attempt to import it without the appropriate permits, could be construed as a serious crime. Erase such thoughts from your mind.
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[*] posted on 11-11-2014 at 08:06


Quote: Originally posted by chem50  
...
Exactly mate :) and from what ive heard nitroethane isn't even illegal in the USA! watched yes but not technically illegal. Again this is just what ive heard as im not in the US.
...

[Edited on 10-11-2014 by chem50]


As I understand it the status of chemical legality in the US (with respect to the DEA, not DHS) is:
Only scheduled substances are actually illegal to possess without a DEA license (or a valid script from a licensee).

The List 1 and 2 chemicals (not scheduled) are not illegal to possess, but have a monitoring apparatus set up and transactions involving these chemicals may be regulated depending on their nature.

Manufacturing, distributing, importing (or exporting) List 1 chemicals requires getting permission (a license) from the DEA. Nitroethane is a List 1 chemical so ordering it from an overseas source makes you an importer subject to DEA licensing - and is thus illegal.

Manufacturing, distributing, or importing List 2 chemicals does not require a DEA license, but the transactions may still be regulated transactions (depending on quantity), and the same record keeping and reporting is required.

If someone is licensed by the DEA (and thus the DEA is satisfied that they are keeping the required records of transactions) then they can sell List 1 and 2 chemicals, apparently to anybody.

Here is a DEA manual on this:

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/chem/chem_man...

I have skimmed through it, but have not tried to parse every clause that may be relevant (a considerable task). And even if I did, it may not make things completely clear. There is a lot of complaint about the vagueness of DEA regulations.

I am still unclear about the exact significance of the threshold reporting amounts for List 1 and 2 chemicals. For many chemicals the quantities are very large (from the perspective of the amateur chemist). For example for nitroethane it is 2.5 kg.

But here is a very significant piece of information to take into account:

Iodine is a List 1 chemical with a no minimum reporting amount (i.e. any quantity is subject to reporting). Yet United Nuclear sells iodine to the general public, though the amount is limited to one ounce per "given person or address" per calendar year.

In general though if it is List 1, in the U.S. you can't get it. (And if you make it yourself you would need a license - something people making their own iodine or phosphorus, or nitroethane, should be aware of.)

The DEA makes sellers responsible for the actions of their customers - there is wide latitude for them to assert that a seller 'should have known' they were selling to an illegal drug operation, prosecutions are not restricted to technical violations of licensing requirements, which forces sellers to be extremely conservative for their own safety.
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[*] posted on 11-11-2014 at 15:49


Very interesting thanks for the info well its a real good job that im not in the US lol.

Just to let everyone know i was a little vague on my location when i first made this thread said i was located in europe but to be more specific im in the UK.

Synthesis of nitroethane seems not to appealing as im still fairly new to chemistry think i could do the sodium ethyl sulfate method but it seems even harder to obtain sodium ethyl sulfate!

Think ive found a legitimate supplier on ebay who ships from Poland about £20 more than that tip blender stuff not bad at all.

Im still a little confused on how to check if nitroethane is legit and pure though is a boiling point test really enough to test the purity? with nitroethane that would be heating it up to about 114c? obviously observing if it boils before reaching the set boiling point.

[Edited on 11-11-2014 by chem50]
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[*] posted on 11-11-2014 at 22:52


I keep seeing posts generally like those above, yet in my experience one can get pretty much whatever they want on ebay. I poked around there before I joined here and never had a problem finding whatever I was looking for. All of it exactly as described, list I, list II, list whatever...what i have found is that items are easier to find if one knows the varied forms and names...

Edited to add
For example, rp. I was surprised to see it listed, under a common synonym.

I don't need huge quantities of anything, industrial channels are not available to me as an individual, ebay is my first stop. I've never been sold a bogus bottle or box.

[Edited on 12-11-2014 by NOV:5]




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Etaoin Shrdlu
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[*] posted on 12-11-2014 at 17:09


Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
In general though if it is List 1, in the U.S. you can't get it.

Haha. I can get at least 5 of them readily in fair quantities (and have 4 of those on hand). The rest I haven't tried. It's not that bad.
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[*] posted on 13-11-2014 at 05:47


Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  
Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
In general though if it is List 1, in the U.S. you can't get it.

Haha. I can get at least 5 of them readily in fair quantities (and have 4 of those on hand). The rest I haven't tried. It's not that bad.


I should remember the adage "Generalizations are always bad." (Yes, that's a joke.)

The point I was trying to make in a terse summary was that although List 1 chemicals can legally be sold to the public under DEA regs, offerings of them by chemical dealers are quite scarce. Try buying phosphorus for example.

I mentioned one that you can get myself (iodine), but United Nuclear is the only company selling elemental iodine (as opposed to Lugol's solution) that I see.

I know how to get several of them also, mostly in an off-labelled manner. "Almond essence" that happens to be benzaldehyde, diethylamine salts know as "DEET" and so forth. Still I don't see U.S. chemical dealers offering them for sale.


[Edited on 13-11-2014 by careysub]
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[*] posted on 15-11-2014 at 14:21


So i picked up some nitroethane from a friend he said he has had it for a while picked it up in a bulk buy of chemicals that he won on auction through ebay apparently and he just never had a use for it.

I would of course like to just verify that i do infact have nitroethane as technically it could be anything - any ideas for quick tests i can do to verify its nitroethane? going to do a boil point test when i have the time. Chemistry is just my hobby and ive been mad busy with work so not had the time to do it yet.

Thanks :)
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[*] posted on 15-11-2014 at 14:58


Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
The point I was trying to make in a terse summary was that although List 1 chemicals can legally be sold to the public under DEA regs, offerings of them by chemical dealers are quite scarce. Try buying phosphorus for example.

That would be a tricky one.
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[*] posted on 15-11-2014 at 16:25


Ummm. Certain listed items are restricted by the DEA. Some of THOSE items, plus additional items, are restricted by other agencies. ATF for one.

G-men can be very fussy about the sale of chemicals that could be used to manufacture bombs and chemical weapons.

Phosphorus is an ideal candidate for restricted access. Not easy to make it from scratch.
Lots of potentially dangerous uses. Not commonly used in commerce, but absolutely required for certain nefarious operations.





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[*] posted on 15-11-2014 at 17:50


P actually is forbidden to have in some states. Try ordering safrole, methylamine, phenylacetic acid, and ergotamine.

When you order nitroethane or whatever from ebay and the US authorities decide to investigate why because they have decided that you are involved in drug activities, possession of sodium hydroxide becomes a crime, because you're using it to make meth, whether you actually are or not.

There should be many tests for nitroethane. There's always reduction to ethylamine HCl, or yellow crystals with benzaldehyde and base that give phenylacetone with Fe/HCl.




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[*] posted on 15-11-2014 at 18:53


Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Try ordering safrole, methylamine, phenylacetic acid, and ergotamine.

One of these I bought last year through a legitimate US chemical supplier, privately, no hassle. Didn't even know it was watched until I started paying more attention to clandestine drug manufacture.

Oh no I'm on a list.

I'd bury my sodium hydroxide in my yard but the ground's already frozen.
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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 15:04


Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  
Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Try ordering safrole, methylamine, phenylacetic acid, and ergotamine.

One of these I bought last year through a legitimate US chemical supplier, privately, no hassle.


I'm betting it was methyamine.

Quote:
Didn't even know it was watched until I started paying more attention to clandestine drug manufacture.


Ditto when I bought lithium for my element collection.

Quote:

Oh no I'm on a list.

I'd bury my sodium hydroxide in my yard but the ground's already frozen.


Here's the thing.

To a substantial degree it does not matter that you are not doing anything illegal.

If you get raided at all your life is likely turned upside down, and not doing anything illegal does not mean that a jury will not convict you as a clever drug cook. And all of your assets can be seized without you even being charged with a crime - in fact the majority of asset seizures occur without any judicial action of any kind (not even civil):
http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/2012/a1240.pdf

You don't want any attention from police at all - that is the best policy (along these lines, look up the "Never Talk to a Police Officer" video on YouTube).

On the other hand, I do not know of any cases of people being raided just because they made small purchases (a fraction of the thresholds for regulated transactions - see below) of watched substances.

Does anyone else?

Most of us are never going to purchase a threshold amount of any of these things in a given year (though if you purchase nine 4 oz bottles of DEET 100 you will exceed the limit).

Thresholds are in Appendix D:
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/chem/chem_man...

For some fairly general/widely used reagents they are:
List 1:
Benzaldehyde 4 kilograms
Benzyl cyanide 1 kilogram
Ethylamine and its salts: 1 kilogram
Methylamine and its salts: 1 kilogram
Nitroethane: 2.5 kilograms
Piperidine and its salts: 500 grams
Piperonal (heliotropin): 4 kilograms

List 2:
Acetic anhydride: 250 gallons
Acetone: 50 gallons
Benzyl chloride: 1 kg
Ethyl ether: 50 gallons
Potassium permanganate: 55 kg
Methyl ethyl ketone: 50 gallons
Toluene: 50 gallons
Sodium permanganate: 55 kg

Zero threshold:
Anhydrous hydrogen chloride
Iodine
Phosphorus
Hypophosphorus compounds
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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 15:08


Iodine = Zero Threshold ?

So my 2g element specimen makes me jail worthy ?




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 15:45


Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
Here's the thing.

To a substantial degree it does not matter that you are not doing anything illegal.

If you get raided at all your life is likely turned upside down, and not doing anything illegal does not mean that a jury will not convict you as a clever drug cook.

1. Since I have zero samples of scheduled drugs on the premises, they would come out of a raid with zero samples of scheduled drugs. But hey, maybe they'd go to court anyway because there are just no real cooks in the area (ha) and they're goddamn desperate, where
2. My lab notebook and extensive inventory of innocuous chemicals would be fair evidence I was doing something quite different from making drugs, and
3. The only "intent to manufacture" law in Wisconsin relating to precursors rather than scheduled drugs requires significant amounts of ephedrine or pseudoephedrine on hand,* both of which I avoid even taking as a matter of course, furthermore
4. I choose not to live my life in fear someone will kick down my door for owning sodium hydroxide.

*I am neither a lawyer nor infallible, etcetera and so forth.

Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
And all of your assets can be seized without you even being charged with a crime - in fact the majority of asset seizures occur without any judicial action of any kind (not even civil):
http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/2012/a1240.pdf

"Under criminal forfeiture proceedings, the forfeiture is part of the trial process that targets property named in the indictment. Proceedings to determine whether the property will be forfeited take place after, and only if, the defendant is convicted."

So, seized, yes. Of course they can take things they personally think are evidence or will be used to commit a crime. But in order to have it actually forfeited in a drug manufacturing case they need to convict you.

Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
You don't want any attention from police at all - that is the best policy (along these lines, look up the "Never Talk to a Police Officer" video on YouTube).

Of course I don't want attention from police. I just don't think ordering small amounts of List I chemicals is something to worry about, especially since I'm clean. Now the people making a big fuss over it, writing up lists of which reagents are the most suspicious and how to fake professional credentials and all that, well, they probably should worry because they're actually engaged in drug manufacture.

I'm not making explosives. I'm not making drugs. I'm not in an apartment. I can afford mild suspicion.

Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
On the other hand, I do not know of any cases of people being raided just because they made small purchases (a fraction of the thresholds for regulated transactions - see below) of watched substances.

Does anyone else?

I don't believe it's typical.

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Iodine = Zero Threshold ?

So my 2g element specimen makes me jail worthy ?

Not at all. In the US, it just means that whoever sold it to you needed to keep a record.

[Edited on 11-17-2014 by Etaoin Shrdlu]
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