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aga
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Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston  | Be aware that people can suggest a challenge that they have an (perhaps unfair) advantage in, or even something that they already accomplished.
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Doesn't mean their already accomplished method will be the Best method, or be voted for above other methods.
Such as ....
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DrMario
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | If the Target product can be bought, that really does not matter.
The next challenge will require a write-up of how the product was made, in precise and photographic detail.
Simply posting a screenshot of the ebay listing, then an opened box won't win the prize money ! |
Believe me, part of me could see this coming. And yet, another part of me thought/hoped that the challenges of the type "Synthesize compound X" would
have X be a substance either hard to come by, or prohibitively expensive - e.g. Luminol.
(Yes, I know there's a well known method for synthesizing Luminol; this was just an example of an expensive compound.)
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aga
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So a Luminol synthesis is a suggested Challenge.
Nice one. The photos would look great too.
Edit :
Any synthesis that has interesting chemistry attached will be good, whether the resulting product(s) are useful or not.
[Edited on 12-11-2014 by aga]
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unionised
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| Quote: Originally posted by plante1999 | I have an idea. Turning proteins into usable ammonia. Not only is it a reasonable goal, but many ways to acheive it. One would have to find a protein
source, hair, horn etc, and find the process.
The purer and more concentrated ammonia, the better. |
Are you taking the piss?
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DrMario
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| Quote: Originally posted by unionised | | Quote: Originally posted by plante1999 | I have an idea. Turning proteins into usable ammonia. Not only is it a reasonable goal, but many ways to acheive it. One would have to find a protein
source, hair, horn etc, and find the process.
The purer and more concentrated ammonia, the better. |
Are you taking the piss? |
Hahah, good one!
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aga
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Removing Urine from alcohol :
Step 1. Find a suitable reaction vessel.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston | Be aware that people can suggest a challenge that they have an (perhaps unfair) advantage in, or even something that they already accomplished.
Also, consider to use the opportunity to buy solutions/good writeups for practical problems many members have been struggling with in the past but
that are not necessarily the most difficult (rather than very difficult but 'academic' problems that are a of particular interest to only very few or
even just one person). |
Avoiding cheating will never be 100 % possible but detecting cheating is not that hard, in most cases.
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blogfast25
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What makes you think that he is?
Recovering ammonia from glycine (recovered from hair e.g.) could be interesting and certainly not easy to do without enzymatic activity to 'snip off'
that amine function as NH3.
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The Volatile Chemist
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You should add a competitions page to the sciencemadness wiki, I think that'd be cool, to have a central place for competitions.
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aga
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Personally i don't understand the Rador thing.
It appears (to me) to be a schism in the SM thing, driven by Age differences, which is totally understandable.
For me, SM is the dog's bollocks, so the DAC will stay here for now (if permitted).
Edit:
I'm amazed i was allowed out of Beginnings without being mugged !
[Edited on 12-11-2014 by aga]
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DrMario
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
What makes you think that he is?
Recovering ammonia from glycine (recovered from hair e.g.) could be interesting and certainly not easy to do without enzymatic activity to 'snip off'
that amine function as NH3. |
Looks like someone missed the joke entirely...
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Brain&Force
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It's actually supposed to be a collaborative outreach project to put together videos and make chemistry "cool" for outsiders. I'm happy to organize
competitions and things - I don't have a lab thus I have no unfair advantage, as I can't participate. It's not a schism as we're still going to be
doing stuff on the forums anyway and have no plans to separate - in fact, we hope to draw more people to the forum and keep them interested.
I also do outreach at university, I just want to bring it to SM.
aga, stick to running small challenges, just like the one you just posted, and we at Rador can handle the big ones. Again, there will be a Rador Labs
challenge by November 15, and it lasts for a month.
[Edited on 12.11.2014 by Brain&Force]
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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aga
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Thanks for the clarification.
At the very least there should be no further challenge here before the 16th then.
(I'll drink a bit less to try to make that so)
Big and Little demarcation ?
I feel sure that the SM community can handle Difficult as well as Easy.
Edit:
It just occurred to me: appologies if my random post has stolen some thunder from a plan i was unaware of.
[Edited on 12-11-2014 by aga]
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Brain&Force
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Our challenge is going to last about a month. But you can run whatever smaller challenges you want throughout that time.
Actually, I may cut it to 15 days...
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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aga
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Perhaps some collaboration would be in order to prevent any difficulties.
Best move to U2U, so as not to reveal anything pre-facto.
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zenosx
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Loved this post.. I don't have time to hit the lab when I want to or I would love to participate!
Maybe I'll have time since there is no winner yet!
A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?
Albert Einstein
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Texium
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force | Our challenge is going to last about a month. But you can run whatever smaller challenges you want throughout that time.
Actually, I may cut it to 15 days... |
YOU may cut it to 15 days?
Now now, you're not the only one who gets to decide that. 
Also, I see no problem with aga's challenges. Nobody has any real authority here over who can and can't organize little events like these, and it
doesn't seem like it will effect our thing in any negative way.
[Edited on 11-13-2014 by zts16]
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DistractionGrating
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| Quote: | | 1. Concept/process must be accompanied by stoichiometric chemical formulae. |
I submit that this requirement was never met.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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I submit that technically counts.
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blogfast25
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He didn't mean it that way. There are probably numerous 'How To' and Utoobs on Luminol. Not really a challenge if ready to use instructables are
readily available.
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Brain&Force
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One of the ideas I had was fastest synthesis of a random compound - first one to synthesize a compound (kept secret until the start of the challenge)
wins.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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Amos
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@Brandon: photos of the synthesis with some sort of physical verification(like the date on paper)? That could work.
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DrMario
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
He didn't mean it that way. There are probably numerous 'How To' and Utoobs on Luminol. Not really a challenge if ready to use instructables are
readily available. |
Indeed. It was just an example of a compound that, while buyable, is extremely expensive. But I know of at least two processes for synthesis of
Luminol.
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WGTR
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I second the idea of limiting the competition to substances that are either expensive or hard to get, and either useful to a variety of people or
chemical reactions. "Hard to get" doesn't necessarily mean "unavailable on eBay". It could also mean "not available locally over-the-counter".
The previous competition to purify HCl was a good idea. Not everyone can buy reagent grade HCl, and purifying the OTC stuff is a useful skill to
have. The idea potentially could have generated more interesting responses than it did, which is why I suggested some extra structure to the
competition next time.
The topic of acids is an interesting one. Nitric acid is a very useful substance that is only going to become more difficult and expensive for people
to obtain in the future. Nitrate salts are in the same category of increasing unavailability and expense. This is a shame, because nitric acid is a
generically useful chemical that has many important uses in a lab.
As one possible idea, I would propose a competition to make nitric acid from non-nitrate salts. If ammonia oxidation is performed, then less than 1g
of platinum is allowed (about $50 on eBay). A better design would incorporate a non-precious metal catalyst, if it gives useful lab-scale results. A
Birkeland Eyde process could be used. Starting materials other than air and ammonia can be used, as long as they are not nitrate salts, and are
cheaply and readily available.
Entries could be judged according to ($) input vs. nitric acid output for various quantities. A Birkeland Eyde process uses air as a starting
material, but the process is inefficient. Electricity cost becomes significant. Ammonia oxidation requires more expensive starting materials, but is
more efficient. Industrially, it is a cheaper process. One drawback is that it normally uses expensive catalysts. Also, safety is an important
consideration. A design that has high voltages tucked away from inquisitive fingers, or designs that minimize the risk from fuel-air explosions,
would take priority. A winning project needs to be documented well enough for someone else to duplicate it, using components that other people can
order.
I've thought of doing the Birkeland Eyde process myself, and I do have a personal advantage on the electronics side of the equation. I haven't gotten
around to doing this, though. I'm not proposing that a reward be offered, other than the ego trip from knowing that one's design is better than
everyone else's. The real reward would be to the forum, which would benefit from the knowledge that would be shared.
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aga
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I like that one. Cheers.
Alternate non-bases-of-nitric-acid methods for making HNO3 would be very useful, and hopefully challenging !
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