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Author: Subject: Rador Labs Challenge 11-12/2014: High Stakes, High Mass
Texium
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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 14:02


I'm not sure I agree with that. I think that if someone sees that someone else made a heavier compound than the one that they submitted, then they'll try to make something heavier. (like I'm trying to do now...) If anything, seeing the submissions actually helps fuel the competition. Also it prevents the inevitable event of two people making the same compound without knowing. If they're submitted as they're finished, the first person to submit would earn the leading spot. If they waited until the end, there would be no way to know for sure who made it first, and they'd have to split the money or something (which I doubt will be that much anyway, at least for this first competition).

I propose that the choice to post the compound before the deadline or not should be up to the person posting it.




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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 14:09


that's a good idea.



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bismuthate
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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 14:25


Antimony Ferrocyanide
Sb4(Fe(CN)6)3*(H2O)25
1573.2702 g/mol
5g of antimony from a nearby welding supply was added to 40mL of 39% muriatic pool acid.
It is left to react for 2 days.
Decant the solution.
Mix this solution with 6g of potassium ferricyanide obtained from impure blue toner and 6g of sodium metabisulfite in 40mL of water.
3K4[Fe(CN)6]+4SbCl3=Sb4[Fe(CN)6]3+12KCl
Filter and dry the precipitate.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/87jprnifb6tdpud/AACuptOR9fzKQCR7k...

[Edited on 16-11-2014 by bismuthate]




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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 14:54


I've got an idea for a compound with over 5500g/mol with OTC reagents. Unfortunately, I don't know if I'll be able to do the entire synthesis to completion... I guess I'll try in about a week. (I've got a break from school then...) Also, seperating it in the final step may be hard...

[Edited on 11-16-2014 by cpman]
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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 17:35


Would it be allowed to isolate the protein ovalbumin (45 kDa) from egg white? I think I can pull it off.

It has a definite structure, with a well-defined molecular weight.




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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 17:46


Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Would it be allowed to isolate the protein ovalbumin (45 kDa) from egg white? I think I can pull it off.

It has a definite structure, with a well-defined molecular weight.
Isn't there a limit on the molecular weight of reagents used?
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Brain&Force
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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 17:50


Falls under protein classification.

So nope.




At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 19:10


I'm thinking about making certain stearic acid esters. I can probably get over 1700 g/mol.



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[*] posted on 16-11-2014 at 20:13


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by Mesa  
@
The target compound(s) I had in mind is phosphotungstic acid, using tungsten metal and phosphorus acid. I assume the "poly" in heteropolyacid is outdated nomenclature, given it is not a polymer.



I do wish contenders would keep their ideas to themselves until after the competition and discuss any doubts with the organisers in private.

Play your cards close to your chest!


I apologize, I kinda figured the first post I made had pretty much given the game away already. My bad
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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 07:09


The current prize is $19 USD

Many of you have donated without submitting an entry. Thank you for your contributions!

Keep the compounds coming! If I end up winning, I will set up another challenge personally so that I might donate the funds to someone in need of laboratory supplies.




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 07:51


Though it isn't set in stone or anything, the competition organizers and I have been toying with the idea of giving part of the award to whoever has controlled first place for the longest time stretch, which is not mutually exclusive with the winner for heaviest compound. It may not be in your best interest to wait until the end to submit your compounds!



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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 08:32
Determining Molecular Mass


From:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Mtth5g59dEIC&pg=PA38&am...



freeze.jpg - 680kB

[Edited on 11-17-2014 by WGTR]
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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 09:48


Freezing point depression is really not easy to put into practice.



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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 09:52


Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now  
Though it isn't set in stone or anything, the competition organizers and I have been toying with the idea of giving part of the award to whoever has controlled first place for the longest time stretch, which is not mutually exclusive with the winner for heaviest compound. It may not be in your best interest to wait until the end to submit your compounds!


Well, I'm sorry but personally I'm opposed to that too. What if a submitter submits late into the completion because his synthesis is simply more complicated than most? Why should he be 'punished' for that?

This thing is being over-engineered. The rules should have been clear BEFORE the start of the competition, not changed DURING it.


[Edited on 17-11-2014 by blogfast25]




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 10:42


I'm opposed to it as well. Come on, I donated under the assumption whoever synthesized or extracted the heaviest compound would win. So did many other people. Could the rules not be changed while the competition is running?

If you want another prize for "longest king of the hill," set up a donation pool for that. I'll toss a few dollars in.
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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 11:45


You're right, we should have been more clear about the rules. The problem is that we didn't realize that people would wait until the last minute to submit, as we were hoping for a steady stream of submissions.

By the way, who is the current leader and what is the highest mass?

[Edited on 17.11.2014 by Brain&Force]




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 11:55


I believe it is still Praxichys's silver(I) tetraiodomercurate(II), with 923.94 g/mol.

And yes, I like the idea of having a separate pool better too.

[Edited on 11-17-2014 by No Tears Only Dreams Now]




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 11:58


Can we submit a compound if it is currently in a desiccator, but hasn't dried to a powder yet? I've got a compound drying that will beat 1573.27 by a large factor. BTW I think that bismuthate's antimony ferrocyanide is currently the winning compound.
[EDIT] Fixed typo

[Edited on 11-17-2014 by gdflp]
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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 12:08


Yeah. I too am surprised at the number of revisions the rules have had since this thing began. Any revisions were supposed to be minor, and only to reinforce the spirit of the competition by enabling us to close potential loopholes, not change the dynamics of the game itself. So far, this has been kind of a disaster.

I also have no idea why it was posted a day earlier than it should have been published, back when we were still working out the details.

Rador Labs needs to get more organized. We have people making executive decisions on a project that is supposed to be collaborative, and nobody knows what is going on anymore. Further, any discussion about potential changes to the competition should be internal to RL and definitely not discussed here in the submission thread.

[Edited on 17-11-2014 by Praxichys]




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 12:16


A drunken challenge is so much easier to manage ;)



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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 12:25


Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force  
The problem is that we didn't realize that people would wait until the last minute to submit, as we were hoping for a steady stream of submissions.



Well, I for one am not waiting until the last minute, but I've yet to synthesize the damn thing! Surely it doesn't run for a month for no reason?




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 12:29


Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys  
Further, any discussion about potential changes to the competition should be internal to RL and definitely not discussed here in the submission thread.



True. RL will learn with the next challenge. It'll have to if it wants to be anything of a successful challenge organiser for the future.

BTW, has anybody bothered announcing the challenge at Versuchs Chemie? Large forum, many bright sparks! Could ask 'pok' to do it... You see, all these things should have been done WAY before the competition actually started...

[Edited on 17-11-2014 by blogfast25]




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 12:51


Compound Name: α-(5,6-dimethylbenzimidazolyl)cobamidcyanide
Molecular Mass: 1355.37
Donated

Sample: 1.32g
C63H88CoN14O14P
(Vitamin B12)

The photos show the full extraction procedure, detailing the PPE required.


FINISHED.JPG - 132kB extraction.JPG - 119kB




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 12:57


Great procedure you really explained it well ;)
I should try this soon even though it looks hard.
Oh yeah I donated.




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[*] posted on 17-11-2014 at 13:10


Actualy, the callenge requieres a final PURE product.
That vitamin B12 is in a pill form so it must have excipientes of some sort (to keep it together for instance :D )
No luck aga ;)
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