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Magpie
lab constructor
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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Nice going Alan. It looks like your chemistry is overtaking your mechanical work bench - that's the right priority! You have a nice mix of kitchen
implements along with regular lab glassware. I especially like the line-up of tea cups in the 1st picture. Mind if I drop by for a cup of acetyl
chloride? 
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Jor
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Nice all.
Mine coming soon. I am first trying to install running water as i dont want to run to the kitchen all the time to flush down the drain. And corrosives
are a pain if I don''t have tap water nearby, so that's a priority.
Also i will want to buy a small refrigerator as opening methanol and 36% HCl isn't going to be nice during the hot summer months otherwise 
I want to ask one question to you all. It seems that most people ,except chemeleo and odenblitz and some others , have most of their substances in
non-reagent/lab bottles. Is it supplied like that or do you guys prefer the cheap OTCs?
I rather spend some extra money and the having only nice lab-grade chems. But ofcourse, I will do most microscale like woelen , so i only need small
quantaties.
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Magpie
lab constructor
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I gave up on trying to store my strong HCL (36% muriatic) in my lab in the garage. It was corroding all my steel tools. So I placed it in my outside
shed where I keep my solvents. This is not the perfect solution either as the HCl vapors are attacking my lawn mower and steel shelving somewhat.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Alan
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I forgot to mention, those tubes are for charges/fountains (I'm into H.E and L.E mostly) and the buckets are 50Lb lots
NaNO3,KNO3,NaCO3,NH4NO3,C,S,C12O11H22,flour
About the HCL, i put a little sandwich baggy over the top of the bottle (layed side ways) then i screw on the lid, no vapors/no leaks.
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Jor
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When i get the HCl I will put it in tightly closed garbage bag filled with some sodium(bi)carbonate. then i will put that in the cooler at about 5 C .
Does Hcl 36% fume much at temperatures of say 10 C ?
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Magpie
lab constructor
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Jor, here are some data for 36% aqueous HCl from Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook, 4th ed:
Temp, deg C..........HCl partial pressure, mmHg
0...........................29
5...........................41
10.........................56.4
20.........................105.5
30.........................188
It looks like the refrigeration would help quite a bit, especially if you can get it close to O deg C.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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LSD25
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I am currently in the process of moving all of my bits and pieces into a single shed, which has been put aside purely as lab-space... This will be
rather enjoyable, not least of all because now everything will have a place and everything in its place.
Magpie, as you appear to be the ranking expert on this topic, I seek your advice on what is necessary (this is for general - rather than specific -
experimentation).
Now has anybody tried using the exhaust gasses from a stationary motor to (1) generate a vacuum; (2) draw offensive fumes from a fume hood; and (3)
dispose of said fumes?
I ask as I am in the process of designing a vacuum generation system for my lab-space, with a fume-hood and while trying to work out how to dispose of
some rather nasty by-product fumes and this came to me whilst trying to sleep in the middle of sorting this shit out...
Now all motor vehicles generate a vacuum through what is in effect a gas-aspirator running off the exhaust gasses, these gasses are at some pretty
serious temperatures (surely sufficient to destroy most of the by-product fumes - particularly when used with activated carbon filters, etc.) and if
properly designed should even be able to evacuate the fumes from a small hood...
I'd like some feedback on this, I am in the process of setting up the lab now and it is quite a job.
BTW, here is a link to a discussion on the use of compressed air to generate a vacuum (via aspirator):
http://tinyurl.com/2g8ugl
Unfortunately, although this would be good, it would not dispose of the fumes - which I would rather dispose of thoughtfully, rather than just pump
into the atmosphere
Magpie, with your fumehood, is it feasible to build an additional add-on sash with built in gloves - thus allowing you to use it as a combination
fumehood/glovebox?
Whhhoooppps, that sure didn't work
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12AX7
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Automobile vacuum systems have been based on intake suction since vacuum systems were implemented.
Seems to me a corrosion-proof pump circulating a closed water loop through a common lab aspirator would be what you want. Doesn't pull much for CFMs
though.
Tim
[Edited on 12-22-2007 by 12AX7]
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not_important
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Running sulfur or halogen containing gases through an internal combustion engine isn't going to help increase the life of the motor.
You need to distinguish between corrosive gases, just toxic inorganic, and organics and volatile hydrides like sulfides. The last group is a target
for combustion, the first for water absorption and neutralization.
At one time you could buy a deice that was similar to aspirators except it only pulled a mild vacuum. Made of glass, often with a long 'tail' with
bends in it to make sure the water and gases mixed. Originally designed to be just run down a drain, but in a recirculating system you could treat
the water to neutralise the absorbed gases.
For a fume hood you'll want a fairly high volume of airflow, more than an IC is going to pull.
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LSD25
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The proposal was not to pass the gas through the internal combustion engine - but to build an aspirator into the exhaust manifold - uses the same
principle as an afterburner - the superheated exhaust gasses cause the ignition of the additional flammable material...
I have since decided fuck it, it is really not that difficult to build a plunger pump - which should be ample for what I need, with the added benefit
that most of the gasses will liquify at ambient temp. & Pressure, thus allowing for proper disposal and/or reuse as appropriate. Those that can be
absorbed/adsorbed and/or neutralized will be... Unfortunately I'm stuck with septic rather than sewer, so I have to take great care with what is put
down the drains.
Whhhoooppps, that sure didn't work
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Magpie
lab constructor
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| Quote: |
Now has anybody tried using the exhaust gasses from a stationary motor to (1) generate a vacuum; (2) draw offensive fumes from a fume hood; and (3)
dispose of said fumes?
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Before I gave up and bought a blower I did try to build an air driven jet suction device based on the venturi principle as used in an aspirator. This
was suggested in Ammen's book on refinining of precious metals. But he only gave a crude sketch, no details. In the 3rd picture of mine (above) you
will see a number of PVC pipe pieces by the cabinets. Those are from my experimentation in this area using my old household electric furnace blower
as motive air. I did manage to create some vacuum (0.5"H2O) but the system was not nearly sufficient to move the large volume of air needed for a
fume hood (my blower draws 400-500 cfm @ 0.75"H2O pressure drop). Commercial jets are available that are commonly used at construction sites for
their portability and ease of setup. The only utility needed is a source of high pressure air (~90-120psi, IIRC). They move a lot of air. They are
also, I understand, quite noisy.
For example, see:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/safety/confined-...
There's no reason why you can't cut two holes in a sash (glass, plexiglass, whatever) and silicone glue some long rubber gloves to those holes.
However, my sash would not be acceptable for this as my hood design is based on a constant air flow regardless of sash position, ie, when I lower it
to closed on the bottom it just correspondingly opens the space at the top above the sash.
[Edited on by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Jor
National Hazard
Posts: 950
Registered: 21-11-2007
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pictures I promised to post:
working bench
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3751/p1060112bd9.jpg
(very dark, dark camera as well , door is 1 meter to left.)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7424/p1060114xk2.jpg
solids (excludes oxidisers and very common reagents, tomorrow 8 more solids arrive)
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5242/p1060115ks8.jpg
Acids (plastic bottle is 'pure grade' sulp, middle one is p.A, right one is nitric.)
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7130/p1060119rb7.jpg
organic solvents (L to R: acetone, methanol, acetic glacial ; ethanol doesnt fit in there, its the 2,5L jug you see in pic 1.)
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4729/p1060117fi3.jpg
(storage place , keep common solids, glasware, empty bottles/containers here , also my 2,5L hydrochloric acid in a plastic bag.)
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2094/p1060118qh8.jpg (outside, experiments involving gasses are done here, altho not much can be produced due
to neighbours.
All pictures are a lot darker than they are in reality.
[Edited on 3-2-2008 by Jor]
[Edited on 3-2-2008 by Jor]
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woelen
Super Administrator
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Jor, the only thing I can say is WOW! You did a really good job making this nice workbench. It looks very neat and clean  . Also the storage is a nice and clean place. That is the way I like it. A clean and
ordered place is a pleasure to work in. I would say, keep it that way and nice to see that you now got started!
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Jor
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I didnt make the workbench myself though, my parents did it for me
It;s really nice to finally have running water. Now I can handle all acids, without having a fear for running to the kitchen.
It's quite cold now though, I tried preparing a 50% acetic acid solution today, but to my surprise all the stuff was frozen !
Also my nitric acid/copper reaction took ages to get going, so I just neutralized the stuff with NaOH and flushed down the drain. What a waste of acid
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chemkid
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Photos of my lab can be found here: http://chemistry29.googlepages.com/generallabtechniques just scroll to the bottom
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Jor
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nice pictures. But where is the running water? Scary if you spill something on your skin !
Oh, and I like the site with the safety label with dihydrogen monooxide
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ScienceGeek
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Considering I still live with my parents, this ain't so bad, is it?
"Non dangerous" chemicals and glassware:
Dangerous chemicals:
And acids (and ammonia):
Supply:
Sink:
As you can see, the sink has taken quite some beating:
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Jor
National Hazard
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Very nice! i wouldnt store ammonia and hydrochloric acid next to eachother though.
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ScienceGeek
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I know! I usually don't!
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chemkid
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"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist."
That lab sure is tidy . I like the lithium though.
Oh sorry, the sink is just infront of the right half of my lab, guess that didn't make the pictures.
Chemkid
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ScienceGeek
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hehe...kind of contradictory!
It seems I am in a bit of a paradox, as I stand by my "motto", but at the same time suffer from perfectionism :S
Anywho...not only does it look better, but it is much safer to have a tidy laboraratory!
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DJF90
International Hazard
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Is that white phosphorus I see in the fridge ScienceGeek?  Nice arrangement you
have with your parents
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ScienceGeek
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It might be
Not to be mean in any way, but furtunately my parents barely know what H2O is!
Of course, I'm not implying that I don't know what I'm doing
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chemkid
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i must agree with you there sciencegeek. Though i agree i can't represent my opinions with my actions very well.
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ScienceGeek
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jor
I want to ask one question to you all. It seems that most people ,except chemeleo and odenblitz and some others , have most of their substances in
non-reagent/lab bottles. Is it supplied like that or do you guys prefer the cheap OTCs?
I rather spend some extra money and the having only nice lab-grade chems. But ofcourse, I will do most microscale like woelen , so i only need small
quantaties. |
To answer your question, Jor, I really do prefer nice lab- grade chemicals!
It looks better (especially with the hazard symbols ), and it is easier to
understand the "content", due to the fact that most chemical labels are supplied with R and S- phrases.
As a perfect example on why you pay a little extra for lab- grade chemicals, consider this analysis printed on the label of a bottle of 65% Nitric
acid.
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