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Author: Subject: Tour My Lab
Magpie
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[*] posted on 19-12-2007 at 15:12


Nice going Alan. It looks like your chemistry is overtaking your mechanical work bench - that's the right priority! You have a nice mix of kitchen implements along with regular lab glassware. I especially like the line-up of tea cups in the 1st picture. Mind if I drop by for a cup of acetyl chloride? :D



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Jor
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[*] posted on 19-12-2007 at 15:39


Nice all.
Mine coming soon. I am first trying to install running water as i dont want to run to the kitchen all the time to flush down the drain. And corrosives are a pain if I don''t have tap water nearby, so that's a priority.
Also i will want to buy a small refrigerator as opening methanol and 36% HCl isn't going to be nice during the hot summer months otherwise :(

I want to ask one question to you all. It seems that most people ,except chemeleo and odenblitz and some others , have most of their substances in non-reagent/lab bottles. Is it supplied like that or do you guys prefer the cheap OTCs?
I rather spend some extra money and the having only nice lab-grade chems. But ofcourse, I will do most microscale like woelen , so i only need small quantaties.
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Magpie
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[*] posted on 19-12-2007 at 15:46


I gave up on trying to store my strong HCL (36% muriatic) in my lab in the garage. It was corroding all my steel tools. So I placed it in my outside shed where I keep my solvents. This is not the perfect solution either as the HCl vapors are attacking my lawn mower and steel shelving somewhat.



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Alan
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[*] posted on 19-12-2007 at 15:51


I forgot to mention, those tubes are for charges/fountains (I'm into H.E and L.E mostly) and the buckets are 50Lb lots NaNO3,KNO3,NaCO3,NH4NO3,C,S,C12O11H22,flour


About the HCL, i put a little sandwich baggy over the top of the bottle (layed side ways) then i screw on the lid, no vapors/no leaks.
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Jor
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[*] posted on 19-12-2007 at 16:36


When i get the HCl I will put it in tightly closed garbage bag filled with some sodium(bi)carbonate. then i will put that in the cooler at about 5 C . Does Hcl 36% fume much at temperatures of say 10 C ?
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Magpie
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[*] posted on 19-12-2007 at 18:24


Jor, here are some data for 36% aqueous HCl from Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook, 4th ed:

Temp, deg C..........HCl partial pressure, mmHg

0...........................29
5...........................41
10.........................56.4
20.........................105.5
30.........................188

It looks like the refrigeration would help quite a bit, especially if you can get it close to O deg C.




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[*] posted on 21-12-2007 at 22:07


I am currently in the process of moving all of my bits and pieces into a single shed, which has been put aside purely as lab-space... This will be rather enjoyable, not least of all because now everything will have a place and everything in its place.

Magpie, as you appear to be the ranking expert on this topic, I seek your advice on what is necessary (this is for general - rather than specific - experimentation).

Now has anybody tried using the exhaust gasses from a stationary motor to (1) generate a vacuum; (2) draw offensive fumes from a fume hood; and (3) dispose of said fumes?

I ask as I am in the process of designing a vacuum generation system for my lab-space, with a fume-hood and while trying to work out how to dispose of some rather nasty by-product fumes and this came to me whilst trying to sleep in the middle of sorting this shit out...

Now all motor vehicles generate a vacuum through what is in effect a gas-aspirator running off the exhaust gasses, these gasses are at some pretty serious temperatures (surely sufficient to destroy most of the by-product fumes - particularly when used with activated carbon filters, etc.) and if properly designed should even be able to evacuate the fumes from a small hood...

I'd like some feedback on this, I am in the process of setting up the lab now and it is quite a job.

BTW, here is a link to a discussion on the use of compressed air to generate a vacuum (via aspirator):

http://tinyurl.com/2g8ugl

Unfortunately, although this would be good, it would not dispose of the fumes - which I would rather dispose of thoughtfully, rather than just pump into the atmosphere:o

Magpie, with your fumehood, is it feasible to build an additional add-on sash with built in gloves - thus allowing you to use it as a combination fumehood/glovebox?




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[*] posted on 21-12-2007 at 23:12


Automobile vacuum systems have been based on intake suction since vacuum systems were implemented.

Seems to me a corrosion-proof pump circulating a closed water loop through a common lab aspirator would be what you want. Doesn't pull much for CFMs though.

Tim

[Edited on 12-22-2007 by 12AX7]




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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 04:23


Running sulfur or halogen containing gases through an internal combustion engine isn't going to help increase the life of the motor.

You need to distinguish between corrosive gases, just toxic inorganic, and organics and volatile hydrides like sulfides. The last group is a target for combustion, the first for water absorption and neutralization.


At one time you could buy a deice that was similar to aspirators except it only pulled a mild vacuum. Made of glass, often with a long 'tail' with bends in it to make sure the water and gases mixed. Originally designed to be just run down a drain, but in a recirculating system you could treat the water to neutralise the absorbed gases.


For a fume hood you'll want a fairly high volume of airflow, more than an IC is going to pull.
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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 06:40


The proposal was not to pass the gas through the internal combustion engine - but to build an aspirator into the exhaust manifold - uses the same principle as an afterburner - the superheated exhaust gasses cause the ignition of the additional flammable material...

I have since decided fuck it, it is really not that difficult to build a plunger pump - which should be ample for what I need, with the added benefit that most of the gasses will liquify at ambient temp. & Pressure, thus allowing for proper disposal and/or reuse as appropriate. Those that can be absorbed/adsorbed and/or neutralized will be... Unfortunately I'm stuck with septic rather than sewer, so I have to take great care with what is put down the drains.:o




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[*] posted on 22-12-2007 at 10:53


Quote:

Now has anybody tried using the exhaust gasses from a stationary motor to (1) generate a vacuum; (2) draw offensive fumes from a fume hood; and (3) dispose of said fumes?


Before I gave up and bought a blower I did try to build an air driven jet suction device based on the venturi principle as used in an aspirator. This was suggested in Ammen's book on refinining of precious metals. But he only gave a crude sketch, no details. In the 3rd picture of mine (above) you will see a number of PVC pipe pieces by the cabinets. Those are from my experimentation in this area using my old household electric furnace blower as motive air. I did manage to create some vacuum (0.5"H2O) but the system was not nearly sufficient to move the large volume of air needed for a fume hood (my blower draws 400-500 cfm @ 0.75"H2O pressure drop). Commercial jets are available that are commonly used at construction sites for their portability and ease of setup. The only utility needed is a source of high pressure air (~90-120psi, IIRC). They move a lot of air. They are also, I understand, quite noisy.

For example, see:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/safety/confined-...

There's no reason why you can't cut two holes in a sash (glass, plexiglass, whatever) and silicone glue some long rubber gloves to those holes. However, my sash would not be acceptable for this as my hood design is based on a constant air flow regardless of sash position, ie, when I lower it to closed on the bottom it just correspondingly opens the space at the top above the sash.

[Edited on by Magpie]




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[*] posted on 3-2-2008 at 10:24


pictures I promised to post:

working bench
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3751/p1060112bd9.jpg
(very dark, dark camera as well , door is 1 meter to left.)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7424/p1060114xk2.jpg
solids (excludes oxidisers and very common reagents, tomorrow 8 more solids arrive)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5242/p1060115ks8.jpg
Acids (plastic bottle is 'pure grade' sulp, middle one is p.A, right one is nitric.)

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7130/p1060119rb7.jpg
organic solvents (L to R: acetone, methanol, acetic glacial ; ethanol doesnt fit in there, its the 2,5L jug you see in pic 1.)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4729/p1060117fi3.jpg
(storage place , keep common solids, glasware, empty bottles/containers here , also my 2,5L hydrochloric acid in a plastic bag.)

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2094/p1060118qh8.jpg (outside, experiments involving gasses are done here, altho not much can be produced due to neighbours.

All pictures are a lot darker than they are in reality.
:P

[Edited on 3-2-2008 by Jor]

[Edited on 3-2-2008 by Jor]
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[*] posted on 3-2-2008 at 14:06


Jor, the only thing I can say is WOW! You did a really good job making this nice workbench. It looks very neat and clean :). Also the storage is a nice and clean place. That is the way I like it. A clean and ordered place is a pleasure to work in. I would say, keep it that way and nice to see that you now got started!



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Jor
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[*] posted on 3-2-2008 at 14:19


:P

I didnt make the workbench myself though, my parents did it for me :)

It;s really nice to finally have running water. Now I can handle all acids, without having a fear for running to the kitchen.
It's quite cold now though, I tried preparing a 50% acetic acid solution today, but to my surprise all the stuff was frozen ! :D
Also my nitric acid/copper reaction took ages to get going, so I just neutralized the stuff with NaOH and flushed down the drain. What a waste of acid :(
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[*] posted on 3-2-2008 at 16:00


Photos of my lab can be found here: http://chemistry29.googlepages.com/generallabtechniques just scroll to the bottom



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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 01:01


nice pictures. But where is the running water? Scary if you spill something on your skin !

Oh, and I like the site with the safety label with dihydrogen monooxide :P
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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 10:34


Considering I still live with my parents, this ain't so bad, is it? :P



"Non dangerous" chemicals and glassware:


Dangerous chemicals:


And acids (and ammonia):


Supply:


Sink:


As you can see, the sink has taken quite some beating:




A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist.
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Jor
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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 11:03


Very nice! i wouldnt store ammonia and hydrochloric acid next to eachother though.
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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 12:17


I know! I usually don't! :)



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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 12:33


"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist."

That lab sure is tidy :). I like the lithium though.

Oh sorry, the sink is just infront of the right half of my lab, guess that didn't make the pictures.

Chemkid




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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 12:42


hehe...kind of contradictory!
It seems I am in a bit of a paradox, as I stand by my "motto", but at the same time suffer from perfectionism :S
Anywho...not only does it look better, but it is much safer to have a tidy laboraratory!




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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 13:25


Is that white phosphorus I see in the fridge ScienceGeek? ;) Nice arrangement you have with your parents :P
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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 14:05


It might be ;)
Not to be mean in any way, but furtunately my parents barely know what H2O is!
Of course, I'm not implying that I don't know what I'm doing :)




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[*] posted on 4-2-2008 at 14:06


i must agree with you there sciencegeek. Though i agree i can't represent my opinions with my actions very well. ;)



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[*] posted on 5-2-2008 at 13:30


Quote:
Originally posted by Jor


I want to ask one question to you all. It seems that most people ,except chemeleo and odenblitz and some others , have most of their substances in non-reagent/lab bottles. Is it supplied like that or do you guys prefer the cheap OTCs?
I rather spend some extra money and the having only nice lab-grade chems. But ofcourse, I will do most microscale like woelen , so i only need small quantaties.


To answer your question, Jor, I really do prefer nice lab- grade chemicals!
It looks better (especially with the hazard symbols :P), and it is easier to understand the "content", due to the fact that most chemical labels are supplied with R and S- phrases.

As a perfect example on why you pay a little extra for lab- grade chemicals, consider this analysis printed on the label of a bottle of 65% Nitric acid.





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