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kABOOM!
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[*] posted on 24-12-2005 at 17:38
Tannerite


I hear this stuff is being sold as easy to get a hold of- high explosive. What is it? I do know it is sensitve to bullet hits...

humm...what could it be made from?
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lacrima97
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[*] posted on 24-12-2005 at 17:54


Tannerite is a composition of NH4NO3, NH4ClO4, Al, ZrH2, and titanium sponge.

From Vepr on APC.
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kABOOM!
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[*] posted on 24-12-2005 at 21:10


wow! thats pretty hard to manufacture on your own. I'll stick with APAN or MEKPAN...or a varient of that... it should work well if shot at from a distance.
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[*] posted on 24-12-2005 at 22:56


Axt detonated some CuO/Al (magnalium or magnesium would work even better) targets by impact, no?

Tim




Chemistry section: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms/Chemistry.html

"I could take measurements, but why bother? Science just slows down chemistry!" - Myself
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[*] posted on 25-12-2005 at 11:20


Quote:
Originally posted by kABOOM!
I hear this stuff is being sold as easy to get a hold of- high explosive. What is it? I do know it is sensitve to bullet hits...

humm...what could it be made from?


ia this regarding that video/site of the man shooting bottles of it with a rifle and having it combust?

it was soem kind of flash comp i belive that he called by the same name.
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Axt
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[*] posted on 27-12-2005 at 06:58


Quote:
Originally posted by 12AX7
Axt detonated some CuO/Al (magnalium or magnesium would work even better) targets by impact, no?

Tim


200 mesh resin filler Al with pottery store CuO will expolde violently via a shot from a .25/06 under all circumstances. With a .22lr it wont ignite unless taped onto a 3mm steel back plate, and then it tends to ignite and shoot off like a rocket when hit.
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a_bab
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[*] posted on 27-12-2005 at 17:08


Actually tannerite is just ammonium nitrate and Al powder. So it's a rip off.
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kABOOM!
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[*] posted on 27-12-2005 at 21:15


So AN + Al is impact sensitive? Tannerite will detonate when shot by small calibre bullets...so your positive its just AN+Al?
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[*] posted on 27-12-2005 at 22:13


Ammonium nitrate can be sensitized by many substances.

One mixture that would be sure to be sensitive to small arms fire is a mixture of ammonium nitrate, picric acid and sulfur.
However this mixture must be kept dry to prevent formation of ammonium picrate and sulfur picrate.

Maybe simply just a mixture of ammonium nitrate and sulfur would be of satisfactory sensitivity. However you will likely get many cases of low order detonation/deflagrations as opposed to positive high order detonation. Sulfur would certainly make ammonium nitrate more cap sensitive.

The main problem with ammonium nitrate mixtures is that they tend to low order detonate unless properly overdriven with a suitable booster charge. Probably just shooting at a mixture of ammonium nitrate and aluminum will just deflagerate like black powder, after all ammonium nitrate can be used as a substitute for potassium nitrate in a similar "black powder" mixture.
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Joeychemist
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[*] posted on 27-12-2005 at 23:00


Quote:
Originally posted by Sickman
Probably just shooting at a mixture of ammonium nitrate and aluminum will just deflagerate like black powder, after all ammonium nitrate can be used as a substitute for potassium nitrate in a similar "black powder" mixture.


ANAl mixtures will detonate when fired into by a suitable riffled projectile traveling at the right velocity. The kinetic energy formed upon impact will cause the detonation of such a composition.

Because AN is used along with C in Ammonpulver as a propellant does not mean that it will not explode, the routes of decomposition are different.;)
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[*] posted on 29-12-2005 at 07:45


AN-Al (10-20%) mix detonates from 20 grams pentatol (petn + TNT) booster. I have used improvised 100 grams urea nitrate booster for such mix.


"However this mixture must be kept dry to prevent formation of ammonium picrate and sulfur picrate."

Sulfur picrate does not exist.

"Tannerite is a composition of NH4NO3, NH4ClO4, Al, ZrH2, and titanium sponge."

Lacrima, u make me cry :}




No gun - No fun!
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kABOOM!
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[*] posted on 29-12-2005 at 14:41


Well, Monday i'm going to try several different "bullet" sensitive mixtures....I'll post some video if its alright with the forum managers.



play safe, play hard...get your lumps...pick yourself up and try again. It will only make you stronger.
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[*] posted on 3-1-2006 at 17:18


Just in case anyone is interested, I was browsing the patent applications and came across the application for "Tannerite". So it's there and not hard to find.

Shooting at reactive targets like that must be a really fun hobby. I hope no one ever abuses it, gets hurt, or uses it maliciously, thereby ruining it for everyone.

Anyway, if possible, please post your results, kABOOM.
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kABOOM!
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[*] posted on 11-1-2006 at 21:38


videos will have to wait for the time being. Okay, so what did I test?
Using a 30-06 hunting rifle- hunting loads- 150grain
velocity of projectile- average: 2915 fps @ 2930 ft/lbs
target: 100 yrd distance

Target #1: CuO + Al (50/50) = bright flash, followed by a loud bang followed by intense sparks- brown cloud.
Target *2: AP + AN (65/35) = a slight flash and a loud bang, lots of smoke...
Target #3: AN+ MEKP + Al (55/40/5)= bright flash, and a sharp explosion
Target #4: AN + NM + Al = nothing... container burst, no explosion




play safe, play hard...get your lumps...pick yourself up and try again. It will only make you stronger.
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[*] posted on 5-6-2006 at 16:49


AP alone goes off with a nice flash/bang with a 2550 fps .17HMR bullet. It would be ideal if it could be made "a little" less sensitive/safer transportable.
Of course, shotgun shells make a cheap easy reactive target. Glue a BB and a quarter on the primer cap if you can't hit the cap alone!
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[*] posted on 7-6-2006 at 22:21


I know that AP goes off by hitting with a pellet gun or a light hammer strike. Done it .
Mixing it with AN makes it (somewhat) less sensitive, but with the addition of a bit of distilled water makes it totally insensitive to shock. Before use dry it out and pack it in a thick paper target -- whola-- you got cheaply made tannerite that is .22 sensitive to about 160 yards .. ratio is 65:35 AP:AN..
More AP than AN makes it work properly.

--- I did a test target last week sunday. I have a funny story about it propelling a 50 lb steel target into the bushes.. I cracked the weldings it was moored to ..
Not quite what I had in mind. :o
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[*] posted on 12-6-2006 at 02:25


Canuck- Quite the reactive target! What was in it?
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[*] posted on 12-6-2006 at 03:21


"...ratio is 65:35 AP:AN. More AP than AN makes it work properly"

That makes it a primary explosive. Think what it did to the 50 pounds of steel, and imagine a little friction or static build-up from filling the paper target, while holding it...

I sense a darwin award coming to you. :(

Seriously, that stuff *has* gone off from just pouring it from a folded paper or similar normal handling. I would shit my pants handling more than a gram at once, and I am perfectly comfortable with a pound of plastique in my pant pocket.
This comes from a guy distilling ether in his kitchen, and sprinkling glacial acetic on his salad!
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[*] posted on 12-6-2006 at 23:01


well yes, It was 65% AP 35% AN.
The target was about 350g taped flat onto the ~20lb ( gestimation here) "sorry not 50lb as stated earlier" steel plate .5" thick by 15" across anchored to a rebar post planted in the ground.. The target had enough force to crack the weldings on the rebar and send the plate 50feet backwards with a HUGE booom.. Emphasis on the word HuGE!

The plate was warped and bowled in ~2.5-3" and was recovered later the next day in some bushes downrange.. I vacated rather quickly as the sound was deafening.

I am not going to try this one again.

No APAN has not/cannot go off while it is slightly moistend with distilled water when you are using a plastic spoon as your measurement tool. The water acts to buffer the crystals to prevent such an incedent. Targets are made of thick paper the water is absorbed into it and the target is ready to be used.
You also cannot set off dry APAN by pouring it from a paper cup( unless you contaminated it with metallic ions ), you can't as their isn't enough friction to set it off trust me I have tried (myth busting). What did work, an accident potential was getting large crystals trapped on the underside of a metal spoon and tapping it against a hard surface.. if one was close enough to the bag of APAN you could almost certainly set all of it off.. same goes for screw cap containers .. they are a NO ! DO NOT USE THEM AROUND APAN

[Edited on 13-6-2006 by Canuck]
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[*] posted on 27-3-2008 at 19:53
exploding targets?


Anyone know what the vod of the 50 50 mix of cuo and al and how does this compare to an/al 95:5 mix. Also why does cuo and aluminum mix detonate... and can other oxides be used to make targets as well with similiar effects?
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[*] posted on 28-3-2008 at 02:13


The CuO/Al mixture is one of the fastest thermite reactions known, but it really doesn't detonates, but simply deflagerates. Metaloxides as an oxidiser are simply not energetic enough to make that happen. Other oxides are possible to. MnO2, possibly Pb3O4 and expessially CrO3 (poisonous!) seem to produce pretty sensitive and fast thermite reactions to.

IMO ammonal (AN/Al) is really not cap sensitive at all. It recuires a large booster to give a high order detonation, its sensitivity is probably more similar to ANFO than to APAN. Any reactions visible will probaly just be caused by the impact of the bullet alone, or by the mixture deflagerating.

A really good and well known high order exploding target composition consist of AN, KClO3 and CH3NO2. When mixed, small amounts of NH4ClO3 are formed making the mixture sensitive to initiation by even small caliber bullets. :)
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[*] posted on 3-4-2008 at 12:20


that's strange- I've always had an easy time getting ammonal to high-order whenever I want. My caps tend to be 1 to 1.5 grams of primary, though. Perhaps you are not grinding the AN well enough? Another (safer than a chlorate) sensitizer that can be used is either hexamine, or partial substitution of the Al with a liquid fuel (US patent#4330346- cap-sensitive powdered explosive composition). Suprisingly enough- water is an excellent sensitizer for AN/Al mixtures (US patent# 2836484 Aqueous metal powder explosive).
They may be easy and entertaining to make- it would be nicer if they could beat the 4000meters/sec. velocity, though. I'm used to shattering steel like it was glass:D
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[*] posted on 3-4-2008 at 12:37


oops- almost forgot- adding something like teflon or PVC coatings, or powders to the Al will make it more reactive in explosive formulations, as well.
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[*] posted on 12-6-2010 at 17:28


Is anone aware of state/fed laws prohibiting the manufacture of your own tannerite type of target?
I see this sort of thing in the net frequently along with the ratios
etc.One being a detailed notebook style of ratios,sensitivities etc
mixtures included RC nitro fuels/?.Some sensitive to RF some only HP rounds.Assuming a guy follows the fed rules concerning a binarys does the no explosive until mixed follow here.Binary targets sound liken fun until you price thyem and add insult for
hazmat!! For a fed non explosive material:(

Im not anxious to phone the local ATF, like most gov agencys if you didnt ask for them be wary if they show.AND if you do call,
w/obligatory name/nombre about unknowingly committing a possible felony good luck to you and if possible retain a lawyer.:D
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[*] posted on 12-6-2010 at 19:21


Quote: Originally posted by kABOOM!  
I hear this stuff is being sold as easy to get a hold of- high explosive. What is it? I do know it is sensitve to bullet hits...

humm...what could it be made from?



Tannerite binary exploding targets
Daniel Jeremy Tanner
US Patent 9/872187

The idea of an exploding target which is sold in "two parts" and is
not classified as an explosive until a catalyst is added to the main
target, is a completely unique idea which increases the safety of
the exploding target and also allows the product to be safely
shipped in a "non-hazardous"...


----
EXPLODING TARGET
by The WiZ (On odd numbered days -- donald j haarmann)
AKA Just another old fart.
PGII Bulletin #48

In Bulletin No. 45, Bob Winokur reported on an "Interesting
Pyrotechnic Device". This item was patented on 12 February
1985, as an Explosive Target, US Patent Number 4,498,677.
The patent's abstract is as follows: "An explosive target
for firearm marksmanship has a hollow rectangular block-
shaped body assembly including an internal bore containing
an explosive charge which detonates upon projectile impact.
A charge retaining disc forcibly inserted within the bore
retains the charge adjacent the rear wall of the body
assembly. A target imprinted on the front wall of the body
assembly is coaxially aligned with the bore."

[These were banned by the ATF a few years back. /djh/]

The patent provides that: "Any suitable stable explosive
compound which will detonate upon projectile impact may be
used in practicing the invention and there are many
well-known commercially available compositions which should
be suitable for this purpose. However, I have found the
following formula to be most satisfactory.

Parts by weight
Potassium chlorate 18
Sulfur 6
Black fine powdered aluminum (400 mesh) 6
Bran 2-2.3

The aforementioned dry ingredients which include discrete
loosely associated granular components are preferably mixed
in dry form to produce the explosive charge."

This 60/20/20 - 3/1/1 combination Of potassium
chlorate/sulfur/aluminum is similar to a formula in
Shimizu's Fireworks, Thunder #1 (43/26/31), and Tenny Davis
(2/1/1) page 117. Perhaps the increased percentage of the
potassium chlorate is to make the mixture more sensitive.

It should be noted that the actual device may differ greatly
from the device described in its associated patent as the
patent filing date is 22 March 1983, and
changes/improvements may have been made since then

The patent cites five other patents as references, they are
as follows:

727,419. 1903. Flying target. A round target comprising
three discs, the inner disc one being a "fulminate" one. "By
the term 'fulminate' I do not mean only an explosive or
detonating substance, since material which when hit or
pierced will smoke, ignite, or burn more or less slowly may
be included by such term." There are no suggestions in the
patent as to what these substances may be.

1,091,116. 1914. Impact illuminated target for pleasure
shooting. "My invention consists in a target having its
impact-surface treated with a flash-light composition
igniting on the impact of the bullet to produce a
circumscribed illumination of the target about the point of
impact of the bullet upon its surface ... As an example of
such a preparation, I may instance a composition of chlorate
of potash, magnesium and collodin applied with an ordinary
brush."

1,145,585. 1915. Target. Small animal figure etc. covered
with a "paint having therein a small proportion of explosive
material, such for instance as well-known match-making
chemicals, with a component of explosive chlorates or the
like incorporated therein." The following compositions are
suggested:

Yellow flashing Parts by wt. Red flashing Parts by wt.

Red phosphorus 3 Red phosphorus 3
Potassium nitrate 2 Strontium nitrate 1-1/2
Antimony sulfid (sic) 1 Lithium carbonate 1
Glue (5% solution) 1 Antimony sulfid (sic) 1
Glue (5% solution) 1
Green flashing Parts by wt.

Red phosphorus 3
Barium nitrate 3
Antimony sulfid (sic) 1
Glue (5% solution) 1

If you are thinking of reproducing any of the above
compositions, make me beneficiary of your life insurance
policy first, I could use the money!

4,243,288. 1981. Remotely-perceptible impact-indicating
projectile target. There are no pyrotechnics involved in
this patent.

The targets described in the recent patent are advertised in
the Shotgun News, [1985] $26.50/40 targets postpaid [deleted /djh/
] The ad also states that they are "Legal and safe for
public use." Lots-of-luck trying to convince the local PD
that you are not shooting off fireworks.


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