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Author: Subject: H2SO4
PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 2-6-2003 at 03:14


HDPE starts to become soft arround 80°C, the more you go up with the heat the more it soften until it becomes liquid.
HDPE could only be used for distillation under vaccuum where the heat is not excessive.

Another problem with HDPE is that being aplastic its thermical isolation effect is high and thus a cooler made with it won't be effective.




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

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alchemie
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[*] posted on 8-6-2003 at 08:26


You can easily get rid of the fumes by piping them outside.
Cover a one holed stopper(cork or rubber) with teflon tape, then insert a glass tube through it(can be a small one) and attach a hose(I used the transparent one from hardware store, PVC I think).
Insert the stopper in the GLASS flask with the battery acid and, as someone already said, boil until white fumes appear and you´ve got concentrated H2SO4.

I dont know how concentrated but, in my case, enough to make HgSO4 out of liquid Hg.

[Edited on 8-6-2003 by alchemie]
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Organikum
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[*] posted on 8-6-2003 at 23:13
outside and outside


Ehem, before venting the fumes "outsides" one should have a look where "outsides" these condense....
....or troubles ahead.

Not outside venting but in a bucket with water gives no fumes and no ruined fassade or worse. Whats the problem? Works fine costs nothing is safe as handling and concentrating H2SO4 can be.

Distilling CONCENTRATED H2SO4 is a adventure not to undertake without urgent need. And there is no plastic known to me going to stand the conditions. (KAPTON may for a short time, but I won´t bet on it). Ceramics might be the way for the amateur, siliziumoxide, titaniumoxide and silicates to hold it together. Thats a guess now.




Restrict alcohol and Tobacco.
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[*] posted on 9-6-2003 at 11:13
suizide time again?


yes whom the inner clock calls....

greetings to Ringmeister - you´ll see him soon I guess.....
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[*] posted on 20-10-2003 at 08:47


i didn't want to make a new topic just for one question so here is it : whats the highest conc. of h2so4 that can be reached by boiling car battery acid ??? i was by a battery recharger and he gave me 0.5 liter of sulfuric acid from some big contanier ( 50 liters , maybe more ) . well i don't know what that concentration is ??? please help . im very confused

ps. im not a kewl , i just don't have much knowledge in chemistry , and im not from USA or UK , but i think you can understand what i said
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rikkitikkitavi
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[*] posted on 20-10-2003 at 09:10


the battery acid is probably around 37 weight %.

The highest concentration achievable is 98 weight %, but before this there will be lots of sulfuric acid smoke=> high losses. Minimum 20 % of the acid will be lost during this process.

a more reasonable concentration is 95 % , good enough for making high conc HNO3.

/rickard

[Edited on 20-10-2003 by rikkitikkitavi]
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[*] posted on 20-10-2003 at 09:52


i have one liter of this battery acid , i can get how much i wan't so a 20% loss isn't that bad . can you tell me how much 90>% h2so4 can i make from 100 ml of this battery acid ??? what is the boiling point of h2so4 ? can you give me some direct information about this procedure , how much should i boil off ,and that stuff??? i will do some calculation by myself , but it would help if i know what you think . thanx

cmon guys , don't be laisy !

[Edited on 21-10-2003 by inkognito]
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smile.gif posted on 22-10-2003 at 10:42


i read on rougesci that the density of h2so4 is 1.84 , but what concentration ? i boiled my h2so4 from 100 to 60 ml , next day im going to measure the density . what concentration of h2so4 do they mean with 1.84 density . please don't be angry if i sound stupid , and that stuff . im new to this .
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[*] posted on 22-10-2003 at 10:56


SEARCH!

And use the edit button! :mad:

Calling us lazy is so @#$%! hypocrite! Get off your ass and do some searching. This information can be found within less than 5 minutes.

You are really pissing me off mister...:mad:

And please make your posts readable!
[Edited on 22-10-2003 by vulture]

[Edited on 22-10-2003 by vulture]




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madscientist
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[*] posted on 22-10-2003 at 11:04


Quote:
cmon guys , don't be laisy !


I usually have to visit weirdpier to find statements as pathetic as that.




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[*] posted on 22-10-2003 at 11:10


you guys are realy no better than xinventions or totse . you can understand my posts , so than there is no problem . im sorry , that i called you laisy , but it isn't that hard to answer one question as easy as this one . don't be mad . ill try to find my answer on some other place . thanks for your "HELP" :mad:

[edit by madscientist: This is NOT a "we'll answer your inane demanding questions like slaves" forum. We are not your calculators. So forget it. We're here to discuss, not slave for you.]

[Edited on 22-10-2003 by madscientist]
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[*] posted on 22-10-2003 at 17:25
I know the answer to your question...


However, I am too "laisy" to tell you.



-A little bit of HNO3 is what I need; a little bit of KNO3 is what I see... Maybe I should just find a girlfriend to date instead?
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[*] posted on 22-10-2003 at 17:30


Interestingly, this Inkognito character is the member of the day with 4 posts... I think I will have to post a few more times just to reclaim this record for those with meaningful posts.



-A little bit of HNO3 is what I need; a little bit of KNO3 is what I see... Maybe I should just find a girlfriend to date instead?
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[*] posted on 22-10-2003 at 19:04


At x-inventions you asked nothing. Well, assuming you still used the Inkognito moniker. The only thing I found is you complaining about not being able to get KNO<sub>3</sub> at a reasonable price, and thats why you make HE's. Theres also some stuff about party poppers.

You asked no questions there, so why attack? If theres something I've over looked, I'm sorry. Or were you just saying that it is inferior to this board? I couldn't tell from your post.
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inkognito
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[*] posted on 22-10-2003 at 21:03


no , guys . im not mad at you. i just don't like the administrators over here very much , that's all. and i was just kidding when i said lazy , so you don't have to mad . on xinventions i just searched for information , but as you see posted for some other stuff. on totse , i have a other user name .
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[*] posted on 23-10-2003 at 05:55


Let's get this thread back on topic shall we?

I think inkognito has learned his lesson.

The purpose of an administrator is not being liked, but keeping the place clean and tidy. I couldn't care less about popularity.




One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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[*] posted on 23-10-2003 at 20:29
Making H2SO4 with epsom salts...


Epson salts or MgSO4 can be electrolyzied and with the right cathodes and anodes the remaining products can be treated in such ways as to immediately make H2SO4 or make SO2 that becomes SO3 in the air. SO3 can be passed through water to make H2SO4. Concentrate and your there. There are lots of ways to do this, but I will leave other people to come up with their own cool ideas since thats half the fun.



-A little bit of HNO3 is what I need; a little bit of KNO3 is what I see... Maybe I should just find a girlfriend to date instead?
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rikkitikkitavi
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[*] posted on 24-10-2003 at 09:54


intersting Cyclo. that you have had success with using only a foil used as a lid
(working as condensing surface for less concentrated acid) , I had troubles with acid losses (far more than 20 % ) in open pans. theroretically , around 20 % losses is the best you can get.

But with a pyrex bowl with a removable lid (with a small hole on top) losses where much reduced. Unfortunately the bowl cracked (quite sensitive @ 300 + C) but it was an easy matter aquiring new ones.

Instead of Fe2(SO4)3 you could try to heat a pyrosulfate , it decomposes at lower temperatures. But still , working with SO3 is a bitch.

And yes, it is possible to "distill" H2SO4 in a way, when concentrating it over a column , f e x in a Pauling concentator. By feeding diluted acid into the column, acid flows downwards and is contacted with hot vapours from below, coming from the bottom contains hot concentrated sulfuric and over the top leaves water with a little sulfuric acid.

/rickard

[Edited on 24-10-2003 by rikkitikkitavi]
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[*] posted on 24-10-2003 at 13:01


I'm quite sure O<sub>3</sub> would be able to oxidize SO<sub>2</sub> into SO<sub>3</sub>, although getting/making O<sub>3</sub> is another matter entirely. I always found the idea of using SO<sub>3</sub> to "recharge" H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> solutions interesting. I've read that one must boil H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> for ~20 minutes <i>after</i> the white fumes appear to really have it be concentrated.



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[*] posted on 24-10-2003 at 13:23


well, a long time ago I produced SO3 by melting Na2S2O8 (sodium peroxodisulphate). Heaps of white fumes are produced, but they would not noticably dissolve in water (very much unlike when Cl2 is bubbled into NaOH) - and as far as I know, you will only get SO3 to dissolve in concentrated sulphuric acid to form H2S2O7 (oleum), which, upon dilution with H2O, produces H2SO4 (but obviously more than you started off with) once again.
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[*] posted on 25-10-2003 at 08:30


ok, now I am with you Cyclo...

No it is very difficult to do it at home , but I have a prospect from QVF (www.qvf.com) for a sulfuric acid concentrator plant.

It is working under vacuum (to reduce boiling point , for technical reasons) and attached distillation column. Everything is made out of glass but the electrical heaters (tantal) but doing this at home is virtually impossible. It is run batchwise.

However, using vacuum to concentrate the acid might be an better idea since the
temperature will be reduced to around 200 C for the azeotrpic acid.

/rickard
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[*] posted on 25-12-2003 at 15:16


Sulfuric acid is the most widely manufactured chemical in the United States. How people have trouble getting it is beyond me. Lowes sells Roebic brand "drain flow inhibited sulfuric acid" drain opener, which you can see at this link: http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productList&catalogId=C0... (its the bottom of the three, notice its item number: 66830) and the MSDS for it is at http://www.roebic.com/pdf/DrainFlowMSDS.pdf which says that it is 90%. Although it contains buffers to prevent heat generation in the pipes, these wont affect nitric acid distillation for example because they don't distill at the temperature that nitric acid does. If you live in the USA then you probably have a Lowes within reasonable distance. If their website advertises it that means that they sell it and if its not in stock, just ask them to order it. NAPA auto parts also sells car battery acid refills at ~ 35% concentration, about $15 for five gallons.

[Edited on 25-12-2003 by Mendeleev]
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[*] posted on 26-12-2003 at 07:57


If you start with 200ml battery acid, d=1,25g/ml you have:

H2SO4 H2O conc. dens.
60 ml 140 ml 44,1% 1,252

H2SO4 is non-volatile, so, as you boil away the water you get:

60 ml 120 ml 47,9 % d=1,280
60 ml 100 ml 52,5 % d=1,315
60 ml 80 ml 58,0 % d=1,360
60 ml 60 ml 64,8 % d=1,420
60 ml 40 ml 73,4 % d=1,504

I always stop here, since I´m quite happy with 75%, but, in theory:

60 ml 20 ml 84,7 % d=1,630
60 ml 10 ml 91,7 % d=1,720

I attached an excel spreadsheet I made about H2SO4 concentrations

Attachment: dens_conc.xls (14kB)
This file has been downloaded 606 times

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Mendeleev
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[*] posted on 26-12-2003 at 08:43


Sulfuric Acid Concentratin vs Density Table

%--- density (g/mL)
0.5--- 1.0016
1--- 1.0049
2--- 1.0116
3--- 1.0183
4--- 1.0250
5--- 1.0318
6--- 1.0385
7--- 1.0453
8--- 1.0522
9--- 1.0591
10--- 1.0661
12--- 1.0802
14--- 1.0947
16--- 1.1094
18--- 1.1245
20--- 1.1398
22--- 1.1554
24--- 1.1714
26--- 1.1872
28--- 1.2031
30--- 1.2191
32--- 1.2353
34--- 1.2518
36--- 1.2685
38--- 1.2855
40--- 1.3028
42--- 1.3205
44--- 1.3386
46--- 1.357
48--- 1.3759
50--- 1.3952
52--- 1.4149
54--- 1.4351
56--- 1.4558
58--- 1.477
60--- 1.4987
70--- 1.6105
80--- 1.7272
90--- 1.8144
92--- 1.824
94--- 1.8312
96--- 1.8355
98--- 1.8361
100--- 1.8305

[Edited on 26-12-2003 by Mendeleev]
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[*] posted on 10-2-2004 at 19:16


Sorry to resurrect a dead thread but my thread had been closed earlier by the fearful vulture, so here I am, posting exactly what I had before. Perhaps some of you can help me out.
I did an experiement today to determine the percentage of H2SO4 in a drain cleaner product. It turned out to be 98% roughly, very exciting. The drain cleaner I had used had a red color to it, some kind of impurity. Anyway, when I diluted the acid in water (TAP water) a gas was formed. It was wispy white as I recall. What gas could this have been?

When I neutralized the acid with NaHCO3, the SAME stuff that had been diluted with the water that caused a gas to evolve, and the acid was fully neutralized, the color of the solution went from somewhat clear to red. I wasn't aware that my solution of drain cleaner with water was an indicator. What's going on?

H2SO4 + 2NaHCO3 ---> Na2SO4 + 2CO2 + 2H2O

So CO2 is released. While doing the experiment the gas released did not smell like CO2. THe gas smelled like burning death. I tried my best to refrain from the noxious vapours. What could have caused this?


Thanks.




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