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lordmagnus
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Registered: 10-1-2006
Location: Webster, TX
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Mood: No longer annoyed ( I found a new girlfriend)
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Sodium Hydroxide, Drain openers
Well, I pulled a MSDS sheet for both ZEP (enforcer chemicals) and DRANO, and ROEBIC CRYSTALS. All contain the following ingrediants; Sodium Hydroxide,
Sodium Nitrate, Sodium Carbonate, aluminum shavings, zinc shavings. Looks like he who has red devil lye as a rare and valuable item in their possesion
I\'ll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he is gonna start a fair fight, or if he\'s bothrn me allot, or if I am getin payed good, or probably
over a good woman.
-Jayne Cobb (Serenity) |
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lacrima97
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Wow, so, i guess i'm special now. Yay.
Here in the U.S. there is a store that has a shelf full of 1lb containers of 100%lye. But...this store also sells, ephedrine (pure), iodine tincture,
and naptha all on the same shelf, so go figure.
[Edited on 1/22/2006 by lacrima97]
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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Red devil lye is not common outside of the US(although it is no longer common there), up here we have "gillettes lye", a 250(or so) gram bottle of
pure NaOH prills. Costs about 5$ a bottle.
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lordmagnus
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Location: Webster, TX
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Humm, that gives me an idea. I may go try the dollar stores, and dollar tree stores for some pure lye
I\'ll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he is gonna start a fair fight, or if he\'s bothrn me allot, or if I am getin payed good, or probably
over a good woman.
-Jayne Cobb (Serenity) |
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DeAdFX
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What do the other ingreidents in the impure lye do?
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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The aluminum and zinc reacts with the NaOH to form hydrogen which provides force in dislodging a clog. The Hydrogen( just the nascent hydrogen) also
reacts with the sodium nitrate to form ammonia. I do not know what purpose the ammonia serves, nor the sodium carbonate. Of course the NaOH also
dissolves the clog.
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lordmagnus
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Registered: 10-1-2006
Location: Webster, TX
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They would make for a very impure synthesis, especially the aluminum and zinc. I used diluted sodium hydroxide to adj. the PH of aquariums and water
gardens to the alkaline level instead of sodium carbonate, or sodium bicarbonate, the carbonate add a cloudiness to the water that cannot be removed
with an ion exchange resin, unlike the calcium and magnesium hardness.
I\'ll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he is gonna start a fair fight, or if he\'s bothrn me allot, or if I am getin payed good, or probably
over a good woman.
-Jayne Cobb (Serenity) |
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MadHatter
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Red Devil
I have plenty for now. I stocked up years ago. A 5% solution of this in water is a
vicious grease cutter. When I run out, I guess I'll to make it through electrolysis or sodium
carbonate and lime. Fucking DEA !
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
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When you run out why not purchase it from a supplier? It is usually of a semi-reasonable price, and such a commonly used chem in labs it is hard to
watch completly. Would anyone really care if you were to order 500g of it or even a kg....
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MadHatter
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Suppliers
Certainly, I could go to a supplier if the price is right. I can't believe it would be watched that
much unless ordered in conjunction with other chemicals that could be used to make drugs.
Lacrima97, said that there was a place that has shelves full in 1 LB containers and also said
they carry pure ephedrine. A place like that raises red flags to say the least. I'd stick to
general chemical suppliers if it became necessary.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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joeflsts
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Red Devil Lye replacement
I was visiting at the place with the "Helpful Hardware Man" today and they have replaced their Red Devil with another 100% pure Roebic Lye. When I
asked them about Red Devil the owner simply said that they weren't making enough money (Red Devil) to continue the product.
I know alot of folks feel this is a watch item, it isn't.
Joe
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Sauron
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Druga and paranoia go together like white on rice.
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S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
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Location: Cornworld, Central USA
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It is in many jurisdictions. Really.
http://www.kansas.gov/drugenforcement/retailmeth.htm
Programs like this reached every hardware and grocery store in my area years ago, and have been updated (i.e. the "Meth Watch" program) since.
Combination purchases top the lists here, though not appearing on that KS one.
The level of watchedness depends on the involvement of local and county police, and to a lesser extent federal programs and organizations. Every store
here gets visits from the police on this. Whether or not anyone in the store cares is up to them.
I was personally followed out to my car at a mom and pop hardware store in a major metropolitan area as far back as 1997, and the manager wrote down
my license plate as I left. They had given no other indication that they found me suspicious until then. RDL was the only item purchased.
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joeflsts
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No question that Lye is used in making illegal drugs. No question many illegal drug makers are messing up our ability to be hobbyists. No question
that the DEA is interested in suspicious activity. That doesn't change the fact that I've bought Lye with cash and no one questioned, followed, or
seemed the least bit concerned. I also live in a high meth area.
The good news is that if you want Lye you can buy it.
Joe
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BeanyBoy
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There's Roebic, then there's Roebic
I didn't look, but Roebic must make two different (or more) formulations. Mine is called "Heavy-Duty Drain Cleaner" and its MSDS at www.roebic.com/pdf/hdcryMSDS.pdf says its 100% NaOH and nothing more. 2lbs about eight bucks.
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Aqua_Fortis_100%
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Here , there are some brands of lye. some says contains 65-75% NaOH in weight (the remaining is only water) and other brand is composed of almost
totally dry pellets at the least 98% NaOH (1Kg for R$5,50 - about US$ 2,50 or less) ..
I always used the 98% brand..
i heard which there are a special brand which is composed of only KOH (!!!), but i never find this here. i only can see this in the composition of
some "soft" soaps(some KOH mixed with greases , and others things).. but i have no idea about how extract this KOH. i think which this seems too
impratical..
Anyone have experiences with this?
thanks.
"The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant."
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DeAdFX
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I have seen diluted potassium hydroxide around. It comes in a plastic bottle 30% KOH + 70% water. I don't think its worth the money to boil off the
water. The only purpose for this is if you need to make potassium benzoate or some other potassium ion for pyrotechnics.
I have a couple bottles of lye hanging around but it will eventually convert into baking soda aka sodium bicarbonate. THe only valuable item that
RDL owners have is the RDL bottle itself.
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woelen
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If NaOH is stored well, then it takes a VERY long time before it is converted to carbonate. 20 years ago, I purchased a bottle of NaOH and stored this
at my parent's house. I long ago moved to my own place, and recently, while cleaning up things, I found this bottle with NaOH again, covered by dust.
But the NaOH in it only has a small amount of Na2CO3, it still was useful for experiments which require NaOH. The bottle was just a normal plastic
bottle with screwcap.
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UnintentionalChaos
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Aqua_Fortis_100% You can't extract KOH from soft soaps. Read up on saponification reactions. The KOH is just a reactant. By grease, I assume you mean
fats or oils. A fat is three fatty acids attached to a glycerol backbone. When mixed with KOH, you get a free glycerol and potassium salts of the
fatty acids. Trying to remove the KOH (which technically no longer exsts) is as bad as trying to make NaOH from salt.
I can also attest that Roebic is nice and clean. It's labeled crystal drain opener and says on the package that it contains 100% sodium hydroxide.
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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dapper
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When I read the MSDS for Roebic I only saw 100% NaOH. Good stuff, IMHO.
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Aqua_Fortis_100%
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UnintentionalChaos: thanks for the elucidation. many time ago, i always asked to several sellers about KOH, but nothing special happened.. so i think
which the best way to get some KOH is a DIY method.
i will try make first potassium sulfate by reacting KCl (purified from farm grade KCl) and H2SO4, then evaporating the water in outside, and
recrystallizing.after, reacting the proper amount of K2SO4 with a suspension of Ca(OH)2 in hot water , filtering CaSO4 and boiling the water as much
as possible..
my worry is using home glass to boil this.. if too concentrated can corrode it as badly as NaOH can do , and become (more) impure.
what the best way to get rid off the water without any corrosion?
"The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant."
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not_important
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Use a good grade of stainless steel, or plasticware inside a vacuum chamber with only moderate heat - within the range of the plastic. Polyolefin and
polystyrene aren't really bothered by alkali, nylon decomposes, check the properties of potential containers before buying them.
Note that calcium sulfate isn't all that insoluble and will contaminate the KOH to some degree. You will want to evaporate to perhaps 20%
concentration, then let the KOH sit for the calcium sulfate to settle out - protect from CO2 and other acid vapours - decant the KOH solution from
solids.
Alternatively you could just electrolyse KCl solution, or even K2SO4 although the solubility is low. You want a flow through arrangement where fresh
electrolyte is constantly entering and the KOH rich solution leaving at a slow rate, and the area around the cathode is protected from mixing by
plastic weave or open cell foam. Evaporate, dissolve in alcohol, decant from KCl/K2SO4, and evaporate the alcohol. Again, protect from much exposure
to air as that will generate K2CO3.
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Aqua_Fortis_100%
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Thanks not_important !!!!
i haven't a vacuum source, so what about concentrate the KOH solution in a proper plasticware(which you just mentioned) with great surface area on a
water or even oil bath at low temperatures???
| Quote: | | Use a good grade of stainless steel |
I still doubtful on the corrosiveness action of NaOH on steel,( specially which some months ago , just for fun, i tried make Fe2O3 by dissolving
steel wool in HCl , then precipitating Fe(OH)2 with NaOH, then evaporating this in a proper container.. i used enameled stell pan to get rid off the
water and stored for some weeks this reddish solids almost totally dried on own pan.. when i look this again, nothing happened, but when i see their
bottom: FULLY corroded and releasing red liquids. i think which my failure was in not make the proper washing of crude precipitate (with NaOH) )...
what is the best type of steel for this mad use in chemistry?
about electrolyse: very good idea because of is based in much less steps and maybe high yields and purer product , but unfortunatelly all of my
batteries are discharged...  moreover this method seems to have very cost for
me, just because of the batteries.
thanks also for the additional idea of CaSO4 elimination. i will try this as soon as possible when i recrystalize more KCl for the experiment.
"The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant."
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guy
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The NaOH sped up the oxidation of the steel probably. NaOH doesn't attack iron directly.
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Aqua_Fortis_100%
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thanks guy, i don't have the absolute conviction, but IIRC, all parts of the pan before the experiment was intact, without any part corroded and/or
with rust parts. all enameled. maybe the remaining NaOH contaminant can has eated the enameled parts over the time... i'm not sure about this.. one
thing i'm totally sure is which this is a CHINA enamelled pan.. :-)
"The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant."
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