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Author: Subject: C-Anfo: Prilled or powdererd?
oneup
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 10:51
C-Anfo: Prilled or powdererd?


I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask this, if not i'm sorry just close the topic.
Can you make C-ANFO without crushing the prills? it would be a lot easier to make larger ammounts of it. my C-AN is in the form of brown prills.




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Coolio
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 11:10


whats the meaning of C ??

catalysator or coal ?

but i think it couldn`t be coal because AN plus 2% somthing what is able to burn is an explosive...so its illegal.


Do you know "ultimate chopper" ?

its some kind of strong blender for kitchen work.....I always use to hackle my AN,coal,naclo3,citric acid ....

and it goes fast....prilles in it, 5 seconds on the ON button and ready
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 13:10


The C stands for calcium.
That's the impurity added to the AN for some reason i dunno.
In convential means the an is dissolved in water, the calcium carbonate sinks to the bottom and the clear an solution is boiled down. fuel oil is mixed with that.
another way is to use prilled AN, BUT pure. yet another way is to crush the CAN prills and add the fuel oil to that. my question is can I use the impure amonium nitrate (it's arround 75%AN 25% Calcium compounds, mostly carbonate but it's brown so it can't be all carbonate) without crushing the prills, just adding the fuel oil to the prills.




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Fulmen
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 14:23


Me thinks CAN is ammonium nitrate mixed with calcium nitrate, not calcium carbonate. Not sure if it's formulated for purely agricultural reasons or because it won't work in explosives, but I do have a sneaky feeling it's the second alternative.

Anyway, fertilizer grades aren't really suitable for explosives as they have little to no ability to absorb the fuel. Your best bet will be to powder it well or activate it by adding a few % of water, letting it soak inn for a couple of hours and then dry it.
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 14:42


Calcium carbonate might be useful in agriculture, to reduce the acidity of certain soils and thus elevating soil pH to support growth of certain plants which do not cope in an acidic substratum.

[Edited on 22-1-2006 by Esplosivo]




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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 14:53


Different situation but I always powdered my ammonium nitrate. I experminted with different ammonium nitrate based propellants.
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 17:01


It is carbonate, as the crap can be filtered out, I assume that you are talking about 'kalkammonsalpeter', where 'kalk' is the Dutch word for chalk. Calcium is usefull for plants as it is an importand signalling molecule, and is indeed often used as the carbonate to increase the pH of the soil. (Though plants need an acidic soil for a number of reasons, but that's offtopic...:P)
Can't you powder it in a coffeegrinder? Those are not too expensive new (20 E at 'Blokker'), and probably even cheaper somewhere 2nd hand. Or try to find a 2nd hand blender, they can handle a bit more volume. Crushing prills in a coffeegrinder goes really, really quick, within 5sec. operating they will be fine enough for your purpose, but it will take an afternoon to get a lot through.
A 2nd hand blender would be an ideal solution I think.




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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 01:34


"...a lot easier to make larger ammounts ..." sound not too good to me. If a minute per pound in a blender is too slow for you, what are you planning to make? 100+ pounds?

And yes, it is Ca carbonate, and sometimes Mg carbonate. It is given on the sack as CaO or MgO content, with 27% nitrogen, i.e. 3/4 is AN.

The prills will *not* work in ANFO, they are pressed so hard the do not absorb fuel. Even if crushed the mix is close to un-detonable, though IRA found a way to use it.
But they use 3000 pound with a 20 pound booster! You are better off re-crystallizing the pure AN, if activated well even 100g will work in a plastic tube!

ANd please don't try a monster blast, it only draws attention!
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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 01:52


You're right, looks like it's AN with a bit of CaCO3 and MgCO3. I think it should work "as is" if properly activated, take a look at US patent 4093478 (part of the Kinepak-patent by Jerry Ico).
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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 02:16


Just to confirm what has been said, here it's called LAN (limestone ammonium nitrate) and it's a lawn fertiliser. I extract it by dissolving, filtering and evapouration -> heat drying.
I have made a liter of HNO3 with it before by adding the prills, as they are, into sulfuric acid and distilling. The acid is a golden yellow colour and fumes profusely.




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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 04:24


TN: Yes I mean 'kalkammonsalpeter'
It's simply not true that it only contains calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate as impurity, the prills are brown and calcium carbonate, magnesium carbonate and ammonium nitrate are all white. there must be something else in it too.
And right now I wont draw much attention at all with monster blasts becouse this month the army is doing some kind of training and we hear massive explosions about 2 times a day, sometimes i can here the windows vibrate.




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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 04:34


It's virtually impossible to make any conclusions based on color, it can be anyting from small amounts of impurities to dyes (I've seen fertilizer dyed in almost every color of the rainbow). Can you post full specs or the producer/brand?
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[*] posted on 23-1-2006 at 05:42


hmm I don't know what the brand is I threw away the bag to put it in air-tight glass jars. But you guys say you can't make ANFO with CAN prills. I've seen commercial ANFO in prilled form. (or does this only work with 100% pure AN?)
Edit: I usually do about 5 pounds ANFO (a little over 2Kg)

[Edited on 23-1-2006 by oneup]




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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 06:42


The preperation of the prill is extremely importantant to the over all effectivness of an ANFO agent. The Hurst patents showed that by the administration of a small amount of water (0.75-1%) and the "baking" of the prills how they become more absorbant and "phased". The "baking" is the exposure of the prill to 34 C for approx 3 hours (although there are other techniques) the prill chages density level and becomes more sensitive to exposure to initiation ("cap sensitivity"). The "Cap Sensitive ANFO" is not a theory; it can be done; but not on an industrial level due to cost factor. If the AN were to be "baked" in the prescribed manner the cost factor would sky-rocket and the whole idea of using ANFO would be less attractive to the mining companies that now use it. Calcium nitrate itself can be made into a useful blasting agent just as AN can; there are a host of patents on just that subject. One of the most interesting things about some prills is that by crushing them they become more sensitive. There was a time when DuPont went to great lengths to eliminate crushed prills. Now DuPont sells crushed AN as a type of ANFO prep. The pre-mixed ANFO comes in 25and 100kg bags. Not all ANFO products come from the cement mixer-type trucks. The pre-mixed ANFO contains an anti-setteling agent to retain the fuel. Cost factors are marginalized for mining concerns that don't have a roadway large enough to the blast sites for the trucks to make it. So they pay extra for the bags. Most of those bages are huge tubes that can fit in many boreholes; thus precluding water getting into the blasting agent. AN must be vertually anhydrous for it to be of value. Any water before or after mixing ruins the work.



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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 07:45


ok guys,

I tested 10 kg KAS ANFO-K (Catalysator) last summer ,...Booster: 200g HAPAN (for normal anfo-k only 50g are reqired..)

And of the 10 kg just around one kg detonated,....and everything was dry.

Its just a waste of time and fertilizer.

Its really neccesary for Anfo explosives that the An ist pure...
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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 09:29


One of the more sensitive anfo compositions I have ever made was detonable in 4 cm diameter, strong paper tubes with a 750 mg PETN detonator.

Starting with KAS, I first filtered out al the MgO and the solution was boiled down to the point decomposition became visible.
To that cooled solution was added dishwash detergent and 5,5% Sunfloweroil. (the 5,5% is relative to the amount of AN in the solution) This was then baked at the lowest temperature the oven could handle with the ovendoor slightly ajar...

Drying time can be reduced quite a bit by crushing the Anfo every few hours before putting it back into the oven. Only 8-10 hours was sufficient. (which is still quite long) The Anfo becomes slightly yellow when it becomes more anhydrous which is a good marker for when it is ready...2% Iron oxide was then added and mixed thoroughly through the Anfo..The result is a very fluffy powder, which doesn't separate. The baking of the oil together with the AN makes the oil turn into a hard fat beacuse of additions to the double bonds that make it an oil.

The oven part may seem a bit dangerous but I never put more than half a kilo in the oven at once, and I made sure that the anfo was a in thin layer. (explosives need a critical diameter to detonate)

[Edited on 24-1-2006 by nitro-genes]
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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 10:16


Sunfloweroil in ANFO? i've never heard of that.
but the thing about critical diameter is true, I once tried to make detcord by filling a tube with an inner diameter of 0.5cm with nitroglycerin. Only a few centimeters detonated.




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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 10:37


@ nitro genes

I think the effort of your method is really to big.

I just mix 5kg KAS with 5 Litres HOT water and then I wait for 3 days...the K is set down to the bottom so you can decant the AN Solution....

Then I cook 1,5 litres of this solution for about an half our..., let it become hard , then i hackle it with my ultimate chopper...and then i give it into the ofen for about 2 hours at 100C°..

ready....
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[*] posted on 24-1-2006 at 15:02


It is not realy that big an effort. Every step is the same, I only add the oil with the detergent to the boiled down AN solution and then put it in the oven. My drying time is much longer but my hightech-automated-thermostat-equiped oven can do this al by itself! :P

To be honest nobody I know gets fully dried AN bij putting it in the oven for 2 hours, certainly not in quantaties of a kilo. :o

Fully dried AN when put in the blender creates this fine mist of very irritating airborne AN. It doesn't stick to anything, not even dry skin and it has an incredibily low density...

For the ANNM you use it is less a problem, in fact a few %'s of water make ANNM more sensitive! But have you ever tested your ANFO with a small blastingcap only? My point was that this method creates highly sensitive ANFO :)


[Edited on 24-1-2006 by nitro-genes]
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[*] posted on 25-1-2006 at 07:46


Below is enclosed the original Hurst KINEPAC patent. The information on preperation of the prill (or AN grinding) is exceedingly valuable. It answers a lot of questions and opens up new concepts. For instance the use of NM is not nesessary if a subsitute nitroalkane is used with xylene. Xylene balence and cap sensitivity is explored. As well as the fact that we are talking about a #6 cap here gentelmen! This becomes a very sensitive composition :o

Attachment: AN-patent_hurst_2.rar (9kB)
This file has been downloaded 826 times





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[*] posted on 25-1-2006 at 11:00


hm my AN is nearly completely without water after two hours...but I put about 3/4 kg in our high tech 10 year old ofen. :P

the anfo-k detonatet at amounts of 300g with 50g HAPAN booster..---- I think thats sensetive enough because I don`t use anfo-k amounts under two kg
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[*] posted on 26-1-2006 at 02:25


"... nearly completely without water after two hours"

The trick is to have lots of air move over it. It dries better on a radiator with a blower at 50C than at 90C in an oven with door slightly ajar.

To see if it is completely dry you put the HOT powder into a glass jar and into the fridge. ANY moisture will give itself away by condensation on the inside. Even stuff I thought was dry (pan dried at 140C, close to melting) condensed.

My method is boiling the sln down till 180C, and letting solidify with stirring to get soft lumps instead of a hard cake. This has *approx* 3% water left, OK for distilling NA. Once solid, but above 100C, I crush the lumps and keep on low heat with stirring. When it is anhydrous it turns from slightly dirty white to snow white.

But then again, I use only a pound per month, and mostly for synths. Hardly det over 50 grams.
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shocked.gif posted on 23-6-2006 at 03:16


Although this thread has been dead for some time now, I was lucky enough to have some jpegs, htmls and a link emailed to me this last week of some rather spectacular shots and thought a few fellow readers here may appreciate them.

The shots on the beach are the results of the blaster using 9.3kg finely blended CAN soaked for 5 hours in 700 grams desiel, using a booster made from 1kg APAN and a 1g AP detonater. Apparently, the charge was buried 1.5 meters deep and set off electrically 60m away by the rather nervous blaster who was lying down in a trench dug into the sand. On detonationg he got covered in shit... :D

Whilst not ANFO, the shots in the field are similarly awesome. In this instance, the charge was a total of 20 kilos of Sodium Chlorate mixed with Nitrobenzene. Fired with a PETN booster of unspecified size and a detonator of unknown specs.

Here is a link to the 13MB video (no sound) of the beach shot
http://rapidshare.de/files/22497917/ANFO_10k_-_Beach1.mpg.ht...

And in the attachment, you'll see a quick couple of stills from each det.

Hope you enjoy. original post to be found at RS.org under "Got 5m crater?"

Oh, one last thing - You think the crater in the field is decent? Wait till you see the video ;)

That's one kiwi I won't be pissing off....

[Edited on 23-6-2006 by enhzflep]

HUGE Blasts.jpg - 151kB
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[*] posted on 23-6-2006 at 11:50


What is HAPAN?

APAN I know, but that H?




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[*] posted on 23-6-2006 at 16:05


Hydroxyl Ammonium Perchlorate Ammonium Nitrate ?
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