rot
Hazard to Self
Posts: 62
Registered: 26-1-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Movie-style fireballs
You've all seen it in the movies, when an explosive like C-4 'goes bang' you see a great fireball. but is this true? won't the explosive's powerfull
shockwave put out any fire rather than starting it? and how is this done in the movies?
|
|
|
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Movie explosions are not real HE explosion, rather they're small BLEVEs.
A flammable liquid is superheated and rapidly dispersed in air by a small explosion. The boundaries of the vapor cloud come in contact with oxygen and
give the typical fireball.
Imitating is easy, put a small amount of HE below a bag or drum filled with gasoline.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
|
|
|
Taaie-Neuskoek
Hazard to Others
Posts: 222
Registered: 14-5-2004
Location: Zermany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Botanical!
|
|
It can even very well without an HE, place some good BP or H3 powder under a plastic bag with gasoline.
For small applications (backyard fun) an HE is too powerfull, the blast will prevent ignition, while something 'slow' like BP is ideal...
I reckon that for a larger scale a good flash cracker will do the job as well...
Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience.
|
|
|
Pommie
Hazard to Self
Posts: 70
Registered: 6-2-2005
Location: Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Google "cremora fireball"
Mike.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Pommie has the correct idea. Liquid fuels are dangerous to use near crew, actors and expensive equipment- Flammable dust fireballs are the way to go.
And yes, movie effects look nothing like real HE. But they are what the public expects to see...
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1693
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
Let's not forget naphtalene mothballs, these are safer than liquids and work like a charm. 2 parts finely ground naphtalene and 1 part blackpowder
should be a good place to start...
|
|
|
bomberman41688
Harmless
Posts: 8
Registered: 14-2-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Even though the naphthalene fireballs are more safer than the liquid ones, you still have to worry about the fumes. I think the best would be the
cremora. this stuff only burns when its scattered out in the air and its non-toxic.
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1693
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
Bah, as long as you're not doing it for a living and use a bit of common sence I wouldn't worry too much.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
I am doing it for a living. My common sense is debateable.
I know a person from Texas who was carrying a 5 gallon bucket size cremora effect when it went off (he let the firing leads drag on the ground behind
him on a low humidity day). It scared the shit out of him and his co-workers, but he had only crisped hair and first & second degree burns on some
exposed skin. BP/Napthalene of a similar size would have likely been a fatality or permanent disfigurement. A liquid fueled effect would have been
"Johnny human torch". Hobbyists and amateurs are well advised to use the safest methods available to them for a given desired effect.
[Edited on 15-2-2006 by Bert]
|
|
|
ordenblitz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 259
Registered: 18-7-2004
Location: Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bohr'd
|
|
There are many fuels used for fireball effects. Other than the already mentioned naphthalene, cremora and liquid fuels there is a commercially
available product known as Chem F/X. It is said to be some sort of grain chaff product but I don’t know for sure. Other fuels used regularly include
saw dust, hexamine, red gum, charcoal, flour and mixes of same with or with out metallic fuels to liven things up a bit. Most any brand of milk
replacer used for dairy calves works very well and is cheaper than cremora. Other more exotic and expensive things like lycopodium and cortex (ground
cork) are also used more commonly in indoor special effects.
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1693
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bert
I am doing it for a living. My common sense is debateable. |
Oooookey. You might want to stick to to the cremora then :-)
|
|
|
rot
Hazard to Self
Posts: 62
Registered: 26-1-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
i think I'll try it with some nitrocellulose as propellant...
|
|
|
bomberman41688
Harmless
Posts: 8
Registered: 14-2-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I don't think nitrocellulose will burn fast enough. try using black powder. I tried it with nitrocellulose and did'nt get very good results.
|
|
|
Endo
Hazard to Others
Posts: 124
Registered: 5-1-2006
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cold
|
|
Lets not forget paraffin as a good fuel source for a fireball..
Your typical mix of charcoal and Ammonium nitrate will pick up a nice firey flash if you add a few percent of paraffin.
|
|
|
ordenblitz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 259
Registered: 18-7-2004
Location: Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bohr'd
|
|
Nitrocellulose will not work as it not hot enough to ignite most dusts used for this effect. It will most certainly loft them though. If you provided
some sort of secondary ignition you might have some success.
|
|
|
rot
Hazard to Self
Posts: 62
Registered: 26-1-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by bomberman41688
I don't think nitrocellulose will burn fast enough. try using black powder. I tried it with nitrocellulose and did'nt get very good results.
|
Nitrocellulose burns faster than the best black powder you can get/make. at least the hexanitrate does, it's gone in a flash. When mixed with
nitroglycerin it's even more powerfull, called double based smokeless powder. it's made by dissolving nitrocellulose into excess of acetone, adding
nitroglycerin and letting it dry to a cake and then crushing it up.
|
|
|
bomberman41688
Harmless
Posts: 8
Registered: 14-2-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
oops, I forgot about the hexanitrate. maybe that will burn fast enough after all
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
smokeless powders will seldom directly replace black powder in low pressure applications. They have very different pressure exponents for a start.
 Black powder- the original propellant!
|
|
|
rot
Hazard to Self
Posts: 62
Registered: 26-1-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I just tried it with nitrocellulose,
I did it as following:
Took a paper tube, sealed the bottom with several paper discs and lots of tape.
then I placed an electric igniter on top of the discs, and a gram or so cellulose hexanitrate. On top of that a plastic bag, in wich I poured some
(100mL or so) gasoline. I fired the nitrocellulose, and the gasoline just shot out of the tube without igniting, no fireball. the second time I poured
the gasoline into the bag, lit it and than fired it. succes! it made a great fireball and shot burning gasoline everywhere, pretty spectacular, but
also dangeroes as the gasoline does not stop burning after it's shot out of the tube! it's stays burning on the ground for a while, be carefull
[Edited on 22-2-2006 by rot]
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
| Quote: |
pretty spectacular, but also dangeroes as the gasoline does not stop burning after it's shot out of the tube! it's stays burning on the ground for a
while, be carefull
|
I repeat: flammable dust clouds are a MUCH safer way of achieving this effect...
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
