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Author: Subject: Simple RDX synthesis without Acetic Anhydride
rot
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[*] posted on 25-2-2006 at 08:11
Simple RDX synthesis without Acetic Anhydride


I found this synth for RDX on the internet, it only uses red nitric acid and hexamine. Can anyone tell me if it will work?
Place 550g 100% red nitric acid 1000 ml beaker in a salted ice bath.
50g of hexamine (methenamine) is added in small portions making sure
that the temperature of the acid does not go above 30 degrees C.
This temperature can be monitored by placing a thermometer directly
in the acid mixture. During this procedure a vigorous stirring
should be maintained. If the temperature approaches 30 degrees.
immediately stop the addition of the hexamine until the temperature
drops to an acceptable level. After the addition is complete,
continue the stirring and allow the temperature to drop to 0
degrees C and allow it to stay there for 20 minutes continuing the
vigorous stirring. After the 20 minutes are up, pour this acid-
hexamine mixture into 1000 ml of finely crushed ice and water.
Crystals should form and are filtered out of the liquid.
The crystals that are filtered out are R.D.X. and will need to
have all traces of the acid removed. To remove this trace of acid,
first wash these crystals by putting them in ice water, shaking,
and refiltering. These crystals are then placed in a little
boiling water and filtered. Place them in some warm water and
check the acidity for the resultant suspension with litmus paper.
You want them to read between 6 and 7 Ph scale. If there is still
acid in these crystals, reboil them in fresh water until the acid
is removed and the litmus show them to be between 6 and 7 (the
closer to 7 the better). To be safe, these crystals should be
stored water wet until ready for use.
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Deceitful_Frank
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[*] posted on 25-2-2006 at 10:32


Has somebody been reading the anarchist shitbook or another of the same ilk?

Isnt 100% RFNA a contradiction in terms given that the presence of NO2 in the acid means that it cannot be 100% pure?!

IT looks and reads very kewl though I suppose it could work in theory if you could spend 17 hours adding your hexamine, struggling to hold the tmperature down and all the while basically choking on brown fumes.... fun.

No mention of recrystalisation to get the acidity out from inside the crystaline structure.

I'm no expert but it sounds like a heap of shit to me :)
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rot
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[*] posted on 25-2-2006 at 10:54


You're right, the synth came from some kind of crapbook,
the rest was complete bullshit, but this one looked like it might work...
I've also find a better way to make RDX, first I make hexamethylenetetramine dinitrate,
And convert that to RDX with white nitric acid. This way I will need much less expensive fuming nitric acid.
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Deceitful_Frank
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[*] posted on 25-2-2006 at 11:02


If you can make or somehow acquire the necessary 95%+ WFNA and make HDN then this forum has a wealth of info on the quite straight forward synthesis of RDX

IIRC though you need to be able to heat and stir to 55C and hold there for a precise length of time as this synthesis is very much about timings and minimising side reactions whilst at the the same time maximizing the useful product.

Good luck... It will be a while before I can even make WFNA let alone RDX!
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[*] posted on 25-2-2006 at 14:19


Making WFNA is not that hard at all.......
Simply distill a mixture of sulfuric acid and ammonium nitrate to make red fuming nitric acid, and add urea to remove the NOx and make WFNA.
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[*] posted on 28-2-2006 at 07:03


The simple "hexamine nitration" RDX method generally has very poor yields. It can work via clean acid. HOWEVER it is a very poor idea to use RFNA. Aside from the source being a teeny-bomber "book" (which should be a red-flag right away), your best bet is to aquire quality source material information.

Attachment: RDX.pdf (81kB)
This file has been downloaded 2744 times





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octanitrotoulene
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[*] posted on 15-11-2006 at 09:34


i ve just joined right now and i have a great prob.... The prob is this that ihave 98% fuming white nitric acid and when i tried to produce TNT, KNO3, NH4NO3,nitocellulose and nitroglycerin, it was successful. BUT when i tried to produce RDX with this white nitric acid, it was unsuccessful... Although i used the same procedure as on wikipedia.org but still no crystals appeared.......... PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!
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Fulmen
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[*] posted on 15-11-2006 at 10:16


The straight nitration works just fine, I used ~95% WFNA and analytical grade hexamine. IIRC the yield was about right, appr. 60%. The procedure was the same as the one posted above exept for the RFNA.
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a_bab
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[*] posted on 15-11-2006 at 16:06


octanitrotoulene, your acid may not be 95%. If it's 65% it will still fume alot, giving you the false impression that you have a 95% or more.

On the other hand, the nitration of hexamine works with an acid of 90% minimum.
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octanitrotoulene
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[*] posted on 16-11-2006 at 02:02


thank you very much:D but does anybody know how to increase its concentration!!!


AND ALSO PLEASE SOMEBODY GIVE ME HIS E-MAIL ID SO THAT I MAY TALK LIVE...:cool:
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a_bab
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[*] posted on 16-11-2006 at 05:29


Sure, everybody will jump in chatting with you about extremly illegal stuff. Do you want the addresses aswell so you can send love letters?!
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octanitrotoulene
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[*] posted on 16-11-2006 at 06:03


NO ACTUALLY IWANT TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS ON "HNO3" QUICKLY, INSTEAD OF SENDING LOVE LETTERS....
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octanitrotoulene
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[*] posted on 16-11-2006 at 06:07


SO PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME BY TELLING HOW TO INCREASE HNO3'S CONCENTRATION
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[*] posted on 16-11-2006 at 07:00


What specifially is the problem? It's a streight nitration of hexamine (for a poor yield) or a nitration of hexamine dinitrate for a better yield. But it -=IS=- a no-no if you are doing this outside the scope of research in an environment of a qualified university, reaserch facility, etc. So naturally most have an issue with issues above the informational areana.



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octanitrotoulene
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[*] posted on 16-11-2006 at 07:24


SORRY FOR ANNOYING YOU :( BUT THE MAJOR PROBLEM IS THIS THAT I WORK ALONE WITHOUT ANY CONSULTANCY... SO WHEN I TRIED TO MAKE UREA NITRATE WITH THE SOLUTION OF DISSOLVED UREA AND THEN POURING IT INTO HNO3 IT WORKED.. BUT I TRIED THE SAME PROCEDURE FOR HEXAMINE DINITRATE, IT DID NOT WORK.. ALSO THE RDX DID NOT WORK...

AS ONE OF YOU SAID THAT THE CONCENTRATION OF HNO3 IS NOT ADEQUATE, SO I NEED THE WAY OF INCREASING ITS CONCENTRATION.. HELP ME PLEASE....
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[*] posted on 16-11-2006 at 09:06


Why don't you go determine the density of whatever this liquid you have is, calm down, drop the all cap's and report back, if you haven't been banned for behaving like an assbag by then.
Relavent Information Here

[Edited on 16-11-2006 by Bert]
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octanitrotoulene
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[*] posted on 17-11-2006 at 10:38


:mad:hey simply get me a detailed discription of increasing the concentation of HNO3
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wickedrabbit
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[*] posted on 17-11-2006 at 14:58


octanitrotoulene,

If you reviewed Bert's esoteric attempt at giving you the answer, you'd be happy.

Tempers and reactions, don't mix. Relax and live longer.

Peace,

John
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octanitrotoulene
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[*] posted on 18-11-2006 at 05:51


SORRY TO SAY BUT WHAT MADE YOU PEOPLE SO ANNOYED?????

LOOK, IAM NEW TO THIS SITE AS TO CHEMISTRY...BUT I HAVE A GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF EXPLOSIVES..

ONE IS THERE THAT I LIVE IN PAKISTAN:o SO EVERYTHING IS AVAILABLE OVER HERE...

FOR EXAMPLE I BOUGHT HEXAMINE IN 1.5 $:o BELIEVE ME ....
SO ALL I NEED IS SOME HELP TO IMPROVE MY PRECISION:) PLEASE DO NOT BE IRRITATED BECAUSE OF ME
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enhzflep
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[*] posted on 18-11-2006 at 07:47


@octanitrotoulene - Perhaps people here are accustomed to a higher standard of general etiquette. Good grammar and spelling will always go further than less-well constructed examples.

Now this will help no-body here but yourself, but be very carefull with the production of RDX. It is certainly not suggested as a 'general starter lab' to chemistry. This is a rather complicated synth that has had many chemical geniuses contribute to.

Not to be picking on you, but have you managed to work out the density of your acid as yet? This is hardly the last or the hardest stage in your proposed synth! Having trouble with something so trivial _should_ alert you to the hazards of going on...

Do a simple search for MSDSs on nitric acid. Write down the S.G of each solution and make a spread-sheet to calculate density vs concentration. Easy Peasy, :yawn:

Yes, perhaps when you have a precise understanding of what the hell you are trying to do you will be better placed to improve the precision of your technique.

Regards, and stay alive. :P

PS - Don't capitals belong at the start of sentences and some nouns?
PPS - Isn't toluene spelt like that?
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[*] posted on 18-11-2006 at 10:45


I doubt that English is his first language.

And until he drops the all caps and posts something credible showing he has either done some intelligent research or thoughtful experimentation, I would not respond to his posts again. There is more than enough information here or on The Explosives and Weapons Forum to answer his questions if he is intelligent and cares to take the needed time and effort. If he's in too much of a hurry to get his 27 virgins to do research and use a spelling and grammar check, screw him.

This whole interchange makes me appreciate NBK2000 if you know what I mean.
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enhzflep
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[*] posted on 18-11-2006 at 11:32


Yeah. I'd be surprised too. But he speaks it better than I speak pakistani.

Which is the precise reason I stick to posting in forums that are in my first lang. It'd be nice if more did so huh?

;) Know 'zactly what you mean with nbk. I irritated him.... once :D

Yeah, I kinda figured the post quality to be unworthy of any response. It's just that one must temper oneself. If I was never nice at times I'd preffer not to be, nbk would have something to think about. But seriously, nothing I've provided is exactly stellar research material. But it was provided with the intention of (hopefully) inspiring some actual getting-up-off-one's-ass-and-researching-it-one's-self kinda feelings.

Anyway, I find you always get a better response from a shit-head if you've already been nice and helpfull. I mean it's one thing to be told to go and fuck yourself by an anonymous person on a forum. It's entirely a different thing to be told that by somebody that has previously been more cordial and helpfull than many. Thats's the sorta thing that sticks around in your memory. :D

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - I'd give him until nbk or Mega (hmm maybe not mega, but definitely nbk) saw his user name. BFL, HED, public humiliation. One or all of those would I believe, cross this individual's path within hours. I'd preffer to be wrong, but would happily view the results of being correct. ;)
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octanitrotoulene
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[*] posted on 19-11-2006 at 07:45


:mad: Hey i think this forum is for explosive discussions, rather than for english discussion:mad:

if you assholes dont mind:mad: please stick back to the topic
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a_bab
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[*] posted on 19-11-2006 at 08:13


When you ask something you are expected to give something else in exchange. Your English is limitated enough to look kews and spupid although if you really managed to do what you've done, you may not be.

Having this atitude doesn't help you. But the search button and google will. There are plenty of threads here about how to concentrate the nitric acid etc. I'll give you a tip: look for dichloro methane.
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enhzflep
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[*] posted on 19-11-2006 at 08:15


Oh. It's like that is it? You'd like help from us assholes?

I can understand your frustration, and purely on that fact alone, I will overlook your little indescretion.

Please try to be more polite in future. I've looked around for quite some time, and believe that the following link is appropriate to what appears to be your level of chemistry.

Hope it helps. ;)

RDX in a few easy steps.
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