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Author: Subject: "Chemical" Substitutions for "Biological" Agents
Iv4
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[*] posted on 5-6-2003 at 22:16


Personally I think a crow would have better digestiv enzymes than cow.

A rather weird thought I've had for quite a while(as in since I was 12).The gland of(say)a sea snake could be placed in some sort of blood like fluid I supose it might be kept alive and electrical stimulation could be used to give venom.
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Lugh
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[*] posted on 6-6-2003 at 04:56


Apologies Iv4. I miss read your post last night (too much to drink and too little sleep). I thought it didnt make sense.
"Crows" make much more sense in a scavanger kind of way.
You will be glad to hear I am being punished for my stupidity through dehydration, an overworked liver and sore head.
I dont know too mucg about the digestive strengths of crows. I would presume they are similar to most other animals.
We after all are scavangers by trade, even though we traded it in for the cooking gig.
Acid in the stomach and enzymes in the gut would do a satisfactory job.
on the other hand they probably have a good immune system to deal with the amount of bugs and viruses they would come in contact with.

The snake gland thing sounds interesting. I dont think it would work like that, but it might be possible to crush it up extract the enzymes and use them to synthesize the venom. you would need to know the starting materials used in the natural system though.
Could be intresting if you can get your hands on snakes.

[Edited on 6-6-2003 by Lugh]
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[*] posted on 6-6-2003 at 21:20


NP,I've had more than my share of drunken posts.

In theory the experiment could be as simple as throwing up on a piece of meat and seeing what hapens.

As for the snake gland it might be something like this.The gland is crushed and DNA extracted.Venom is then added as this should cause teh needed parts to be attracted(my turn to be drunk).Then it could be cultured.
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Lugh
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[*] posted on 7-6-2003 at 09:51


unfortunately adding a protein to a mix of DNA does not pull out the DNA specific for that protein.
If you had the equipment and the knowledge it would be possible to cut out the necessary gene, put it into a bacteria and get the little buggers to pump it out.

Of course if you do this you wll be invaded by certain countries for trying such a foul experiment before them.

Or if you could get the genetic sequence you might be able to build it up from scratch. A bit out of reach for the amatuer but we can dream.
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[*] posted on 8-6-2003 at 00:39


Yeah that's a bitch.Desperate idea:potatos blasted with venom.They're prety good proteins and out of sheer number of mutations a few might churn out something usefull.
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Lugh
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[*] posted on 8-6-2003 at 08:33


Again not quite right. Potatoes are a good source of carbohydrates not protein. Unfortunately the chemestry of proteins are not quite as simple as - put them beside an other one and they will morph into the same kind of molecule.
I think you might benifit from a good biochem - genetics book.
But at the same time its good to have lots of ideas and think in different ways.
:)
Does any one know if companies will supply the rank amatuer with sets of restriction enzymes, vectors etc.
And before anybody says it, I know theyre expensive, but when I finally get out of college and get a job - I might be able to save up.
i supose most of this stuff is highly regulated now .
Just for the record Im not interested in the whole BW kind of stuff. But lots of other stuff can be done (8 assed monkeys spring to mind ).
:D:D
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[*] posted on 8-6-2003 at 13:28
don't think they're regulated


The biggest problem is probably cost, unless you're trying to get pathogen strains. Equipment is expensive. Reagents are expensive. I don't know how much training is necessary to begin doing "interesting" stuff, but that is probably expensive (in terms of time/effort, if not money) as well. Homemade and secondhand equipment might be able to save you some money, but I don't know if you'll be able to get around the high material costs. It's easy to blow a week's paycheck on 500 mg of Fancy Enzyme X from Sigma, or at least it was a decade ago. Maybe improved technology and expanded scale have driven prices down. But I suspect that lab suppliers are still going to try to plunder your wallet for every last penny, especially in the fancy biological realm.
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Iv4
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[*] posted on 8-6-2003 at 23:20


Alcoholics anonymous would be better.I was thinking about nanobots and got confused with potatos(sounds weird but the first project of some dead group was suposed to be making potatos).
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[*] posted on 10-6-2003 at 07:33


Polverone - dont talk to me about price. I ordered an anti-CD25 antibody yesterday. It cost ~ £70 for 400uL. Shit that would hurt.
Luckly college pays for such extravigances.
It seems that home experimentation would be a tad pricey, but other reagents such as medium and incubators should be cheap to accuire.
That said I suppose its not really "chemical substitution for biological agents".
But using mo's to produce products is a possibility.
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[*] posted on 11-6-2003 at 01:58


I just had this weirded idea.My dumbfuck cosuin tossed out some blood I had(of a lukemia ptaient).Stupid school of his tought him it's bad to have any blood in a vial lying around.I was thinking that the lukemia blood might be introduced to other samples(was going to experiemt on human blood,cows blood and beef).

Now we all know what radiation can do to cells.I know the chances of getting a bio agent out of nuking(in some way)are low but consider how many cells there are in (say)300 mls of blood.
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Lugh
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[*] posted on 11-6-2003 at 03:39


"I was thinking that the lukemia blood might be introduced to other samples"

To what end exactly?
What do you think it would do?
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[*] posted on 4-7-2003 at 02:19


I dont know.But I was wondering if they could recreate(can't remember th right word)doubted it but still something to do instead of staring at walls.
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[*] posted on 4-7-2003 at 02:55


Its kinda hard to grow human cells, they're fussy little buggers. To do it properly you need to add antibiotics to the medium to keep them healthy and they become infected at the drop of a hat.
If you can get your hands on it a mixture of PBS with about 10% fetal calf serum might keep them going for a while. Could be worth trying with a meat broth that has been filtered and sterilised.
But if you leave the sample sitting around for a couple of days you'll end up with v dead cells.
I can't think of much you can do with them but if you got a microscope it could be a bit of fun.
The dangers of blood are very over rated. Once you keep some level of safety when handling it, it's harmless.
I've handled smaples with HIV and Hepatitis for a long time and so far i seem fine.
Only thing to be worried about is if your dealing with unscreened samples which it sounds like you might have had, you need to treat them as potentially infectious.
So just protect yourself and you can kick the shit out of the other guy for not asking questions of teacher.
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[*] posted on 4-7-2003 at 18:57


We seem to be ugetting to know eachother better(yeah I beat him to a pulp).You probably are'nt going to like this but I got it from a corps(litrely)no one was looking and I managed to get a sample out(one of the inters got balmed for the marks).Hmm maybe HIV is worth looking into.Too bad I wont be around this region long term since I could probably get monkeys...
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Lugh
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[*] posted on 6-7-2003 at 04:39


Interesting I've never talked to a real live ghoul before:D
How long was the ex-person dead? If its too long then the sample would be useless.
Monkeys eh?
What you plan on doing with them?
Don't suppose it involves funny costumes.
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[*] posted on 7-7-2003 at 07:55


Really?Well what do you think of us?

Don't know what you mean about the monkeys(and honestly dont want to).I wanted to use thier blood for cultures.It's almost impossible to get though( thought about going somehwere else to get them but I'm broke now).
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Lugh
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[*] posted on 27-7-2003 at 08:33


Something for the insane and skilled out there.
Also if there is any journal papers that people want let me know. I have access for another 2 months and I for one intend to make use of it.

Hmm the attachment didnt stick

[Edited on 27-7-2003 by Lugh]
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[*] posted on 29-7-2003 at 02:56


K I'll try again.

Could people let me know if they can download ok

[Edited on 29-7-2003 by Lugh]

Attachment: First Asymmetric Total Synthesis of Tetrodotoxin.pdf (225kB)
This file has been downloaded 1324 times

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Iv4
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[*] posted on 30-7-2003 at 00:59


Sorry for my absence(I know you missed me,dont try to hide it :p).I'm told the best to use is the monkeys spleen and kidneys can anyone confirm this?
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Lugh
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[*] posted on 8-8-2003 at 17:03


oh ya you were missed big time.
This monkey thing has me intrigued. what exactly are the organs good for.... stew?
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biggrin.gif posted on 9-8-2003 at 02:59
Ofcourse I was lol


In a way yes.It's said to be a good host for virus cultivation(hell it was even in a Clancy book-thought that not saying much).
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Lugh
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[*] posted on 9-8-2003 at 05:40


Ya they would have some use in the culture of viruses. But the best would be the live animal. On the other hand you need to be sure that the animal is not capable of destroying the virus in the first place.
Not too sure but I presume you could create a growth medium with stuff like amino acids, transcription factors, enzymes and the like.
Or you could build your own like has been done with the polio virus.

But that'll have to wait for the fortune to come along and the deeds to a asian island with a mushroom shaped rock in the bay.
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[*] posted on 10-8-2003 at 06:41


Yes in thoery its possible.But more often than not nature has a better solution.Easier to obtain too(the natural way).Though the artificial route will porbably give you morte control.
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[*] posted on 22-1-2006 at 19:22


The only reason this sort of thing to be discussed is to avoid it, and even so this information is too dangous to be useful in ANY way.
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