DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
Glycine XNO3 double salts
Background
I have supposidly made this double salt with ammonium nitrate and potassium nitrate. The purpose was to see if I could make a castable rocket
propellant.
The double salt with ammonium nitrate was mentioned in a patent. Unfortunatly I do not remember the patent number. I do remember the patent
mentioning that the double salt with a nitrate and glycine could be made by either melting the compound or dissolving both compounds in water. I do
not remember if they percipated the salt out or boiled off most of the water and left the compound to dry.
Procedural
I measured 1/10 of a mol of ammonium nitrate (8grams) and 1/10 of a mol of glycine(7.5grams). I added this to a 400ml beaker. I heated both
compounds to 100+c(my thermometer has a 100C limit). The mix began to liquify. I stirred the mixture around for about 5 minutes and then I cut the
source of heat. I dumped the mix onto some foil and let it cool for the day.
I measured 1/10 of a mol of Potassium nitrate (10grams) and 1/10 of a mol of glycine(7.5grams). I added this to a 400ml beaker. I added about 30ml
of water. I placed the beaker on a hotplate/stirrer. The contents were "mildy heated and stirred" until the contents dissolved in the beaker. After
the mix got to about 30ishC I poured in 50ml of OTC acetone into the beaker. The beaker got hazy with the addition of acetone(stuff perciptated).
After 10 minutes of the acteone addition I cooled the contents to about 10c and filtered. I let the perciptate dry off for awhile.
observations
Ammonium nitrate variant
The next day I tried to see if it would burn and it didn't. Yeild = ?
Potassium Nitrate variant
I tested its flamibility. The double salt liquidfied, turned dark and popped. Something flew out of the mix and hit my head. Fortunatly my head did
not catch fire I should probably have let this stuff dry off a bit longer.
The perciptate looked like a little like sugar crystals. I forgot to measure yeild.
discussion/questions
I am afraid to melt a mix of glycine and potassium nitrate as I am uncertain as to what will happen. Does anyone happen to know the eutectic mp of
the KNO3/glycine double salt?
Is there anypossible way to have the combustion of the double salt self sustainable? If it wouldn't pop every so often and then go out I think it
would make a descent propellant.
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
I think I will try making glycine and potassium nitirate double salt via melting the mixture together.
Procedural...
1 mol of nitrate to 1 mol of glycine....
Heat till it melts and hop that its within the limits of my crummy thermometer.
|
|
|
Nerro
National Hazard
Posts: 596
Registered: 29-9-2004
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Whatever...
|
|
Why exactly should this form a double salt rather than just some arbitrary mixture? Is any anionic/cationic complex formed?
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
I did a search and here is the patent http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?action=att... Surprised i didnt do this earlier
On the third page the inventor explains why this is not just a mixture (only for the ammonium nitrate varaint)
If I remember correctly potassium nitrate is a needle like crystal. The Glycine/potassium nitrate mix crystals look like sugar crystals.(lousy theory
but its the best I have)
I believe that having an amine group and a carboxalyte group is what allows this compound to form double salts.
[Edited on 2-4-2006 by DeAdFX]
[Edited on 2-4-2006 by DeAdFX]
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
The double salt you are referring to could be Ammonium glycine nitrate, which has the formula
[NO3-][(H3N+)-CH2-COO-][NH4+]. So a real double salt indeed.
Essentially it is a glycine nitrate variant, i.e. glycine nitrate, but the ammonium salt of that since glycine is both an acid and a base.
Like glycine nitrate, it will be quite insensitive but might have decent power, but probably less so than glycine nitrate.
Judging by the flame sensitivity of glycine nitrate (which puffs at the most), I don't think this double salt will be useful for a solid
propellant.... organic amine nitrates generally don't seem to be too great for that (ethylenediamine dinitrate burns equally badly).
[Edited on 2-4-2006 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
I chickened out on the melting part Anyways I did the same Potassium
Nitrate/Glycine mix but with less water about 25ish ml of water. I let it dry out for about 15 or so hours.
Today I just tested a small unknown(less than 5 grams) amount of the material. The sample melted and then poped, fizzed, and made a little smoke.
Prehaps the mix needs more oxygen to be sustained? When I get a chance I'll try 75/25 KNO3/Glycine. This 1:1 Mol ratio is ~57/43 KNO3/Glycine.
After this post I will try adding a small portion of magnesium(5-10% sounds about good) powder to the mix and this time measure the amounts. I want
to keep my fingers
Bah forgot to say again. This stuff is fairly difficult to get anhydros. Even after 15 hours inside it still is somewhat wet.
[Edited on 2-4-2006 by DeAdFX]
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
To avoid cluttering my other post with edits I will just make another post.
Observations
Ok I just tested the mix with the addition of Magnesium powder. 1 gram KNO3/Glycine double salt + .1gram of magnesium powder. I sprinkled the
magnesium powder. After sprinking the .1gram of powder I went to safe area and ignited the powder. The reaction was more self sustained. I did not
have to hover the ignition source over the pyrotechnic mixture.
The noise level from popping was about the same. There was a little less fizzing sound and the smoke level was about the same. In comparison to
Potassium Nitrate and sugar the smoke level was about a 1/3 of sugar mixtures.
After the mixture finished combusting I ignited the residue. There was a little sparking and what not(poor mixing go figure).
Burn rate was horrible. It is very slow in comparison to potassium nitrate sugar batches. I believe if I were to tinker around with the oxidizing
and magnesium ratio a superior propellant/pyrotechnic mixture could be devised
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
I made another batch.
This time it weight a total of 2 grams. It was 80%KNO3/Glycine 1:1 mol mix + 20% magnesium powder (1.6 grams : .4grams). I mixed this batch in a
tiny aluminum tin that I made. The mixing was a lot more intamite this time.
I ignited the mixture and it burned a lot quicker this time(compared to my other KNO3/Glycine trials). After the mix combusted there was a white
residue + some other junk. I then ignited the residue there was a little sparking.
Here are some pictures
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5912/glycineandmagnesium0vq...
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9720/glycinesalt3lj.jpg
[Edited on 3-4-2006 by DeAdFX]
[Edited on 3-4-2006 by DeAdFX]
[Edited on 3-4-2006 by DeAdFX]
|
|
|
DeAdFX
Hazard to Others
Posts: 339
Registered: 1-7-2005
Location: Brothel
Member Is Offline
Mood: @%&$ing hardcore baby
|
|
Today I had the chance to try KNO3 and Mg powder in a 50:50 ratio. This pyrotechnic mixture burned a lot faster than the KNO3/Glycine/Mg variant. I
hope this is of some use for people who wish to do something with this pyrotechnic mixture.
When I acquire the right chemicals I will attempt to make a colored flame using KNO3/Glycine/Mg/other chemical.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
