mericad193724
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Cobalt Chloride
Hello,
Does anyone know a way to make cobalt chloride or cobalt carbonate?
Perferably from something I can get at a hardware store / supermarket / cvs.
Thanks
mericad193724
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12AX7
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Not really, cobalt is expensive and not used for much.
Hum, hardware store huh? If you're feeling adventerous, and have more money than sense, you can buy a bunch of cobalt HSS drills, dissolve them in
nitric acid (or HCl + H2O2) and attempt to isolate the cobalt.
Lot easier to buy it at the pottery store (mmm, cobalt blue), but $40/lb is kind of steep in pound quantities. Might be able to get a "sample" I
suppose.
Tim
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The_Davster
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Kiddie chem sets still often have it in 25/75 ratio with salt.
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mericad193724
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yeah, 40 is a bit expensive, plus I have no pottery store around me (not that I know of). What about cobalt carbonate or cobalt hydroxide? Wikipedia
says you can get chloride by reacting the cobalt carbonate or cobalt hydroxide with Hydrocloric acid.
Or is it just as hard? thanks
mericad
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guy
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Yea sure you can get cobalt chloride by dissolving the hydroxide or carbonate. If it is Co(III) hydroxide, then you need to dissolve in a presence of
a reducing agent such as H2O2.
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neutrino
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Hydrogen peroxide is a reducing agent here? I always saw it as an oxidizing agent in this type of reaction. I have only seen it acting as a recuding
agent with high-valence metal ions, e.g. MnO<sub>4</sub><sup>-</sup>
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franklyn
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Whats wrong with Alfa Aesar or Fisher Scientific ?
This isn't a controled material , fisher's cheapest
is $16.55 for 100 gms of the chloride hydrate.
I don't think you can do better on your own.
If you need real bulk quantities you may consider
purchasing it as a commdity through a broker on
a stocks and commodities exchange , then just take
delivery of the metal.
.
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Darkblade48
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| Quote: | Originally posted by franklyn
Whats wrong with Alfa Aesar or Fisher Scientific ?
This isn't a controled material , fisher's cheapest
is $16.55 for 100 gms of the chloride hydrate.
I don't think you can do better on your own. |
The problem is that Fischer and Alfa Aesar will not ship to individuals, so unless mericad193724 has a company set up, it will be difficult to order
from those suppliers.
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chloric1
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price shopping
Pottery suppliers sell cobalt carbonate from $23-40 per pound while I have seen the cobalt sulfate as low as $14 per pound. But you want the
carbonate because it is about 50% elemental Cobalt while the sulfate heptahydrate has less that 30%!! You simply dissolve the carbonate in muriatic
acid until CO2 stops evolving and some excess precipitates. Filter the cobalt waste products and save them for metal extraction. You will have a
purple red solution of cobalt chloride.
NEAT TRICK: If ou heat oxides or carbonates of cobalt or nickel with a fuel-rich oxyacetylene flame the molten element will be formed! But, be careful the torch may blow your compound into the air. Wet it down with
corn syrup for a little extra reducing carbon.
Try to read The Merck Index. They give percentages of content as well as basic physical properties, and peer reviewed refereences.
[Edited on 6/21/2006 by chloric1]
[Edited on 6/21/2006 by chloric1]
Fellow molecular manipulator
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woelen
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Making cobalt chloride in that way indeed is easy. Making a nice crystalline solid, however, is not that easy. the acid tends to stick at the solid
and the crystals are not nice. You can, however, easily make the anhydrous salt, by CAREFULLY heating the still acidic solution.
It first becomes dark blue, then you get a dark blue syrup, when all water and excess acid have evaporated. At that point start heating at a more
gentle rate. If heating is too strong, then you'll loose more HCl and then you get an oxide or oxochloride. When carefully heated, the dark blue syrup
will become lighter again and at a certain point it will almost be dry. Use a glass rod to stir up the slurry (and later on: powder), until all is
nice light blue. When it is almost dry and fairly powder-like, then you can increase the heating rate again, to make it really free of water. In that
stage of drying there is not so much water anymore that it will hydrolyse the chloride.
I've done this personally and the result is here:
http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/compounds/cobalto...
My dry anhydrous cobalt chloride is really nice. It dissolves without leaving insoluble matter in water. Its solutions are nice pink and very pretty.
Making this small amount of anhydrous cobalt chloride has taken quite some time from me. I estimate somewhere between 1.5 and 2 hours. This was mainly
due to the long period of cautious drying of the dark blue syrup.
[Edited on 23-4-11 by woelen]
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unionised
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If you want to get it from a fairly ordinary shop (rather than a specialist supplier) you might be able to find indicating silica gel (used as a
dehumidifier)from which you can wash the cobalt-based indicator with dilute HCl.
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MadHatter
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Pottery
Mericad, if you find a pottery shop at a reasonable distance it may be worth your effort.
http://www.clayworkssupplies.com
This is where I get some of my chemicals. Click on the link, click ENTER HERE, click
CHEMICALS in the menu on the left, then click on Oxides. Also, you may want to
click on Raw materials. There's about a dozen useful chemicals in that list.
I went there a couple of weeks ago for supplies and noticed that they now sell Ohaus
Triple-Beam scales although they weren't listed on the website. I found them with
a google search for pottery shops in my area.
[Edited on 2006/6/22 by MadHatter]
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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mericad193724
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Thanks for all the help guys. The closest Pottery store to me is 90 miles (Northern NJ) and that store only sells in bulk. I like the idea of using
that silica indicator for humidifiers, what is the product called. That seems to be the easiest way to get it, I only need about 6g or so. Clay works
supplies is awesome, I wish I had a store like that around me.
One more thing....does anyone know of a chemical (probably a transition metal salt) That is colored when anhydrous and colorless or white when
hydrated?
thanks
Mericad
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Darkblade48
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mericad193724
One more thing....does anyone know of a chemical (probably a transition metal salt) That is colored when anhydrous and colorless or white when
hydrated? |
Copper sulfate is white when anhydrous and blue when hydrated, do you just need something that will change colours when it is anhydrous/hydrated, or
does it have to be specifically white when hydrated (and coloured when anhydrous)?
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mericad193724
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Copper Sulfate is too toxic for my application. I would really appreciate if you could just name some substances that change color when hydrated and
are fairly non toxic...I know there is Iron Sulfate, Cobalt Chloride, and Nickel Chloride (not sure about toxicity).
thanks
Mericad
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woelen
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Cobalt salts and nickel salts are even more toxic than copper salts. Nickel salts also are carcinogens. Iron (III) chloride is a nice example. It is
almost black, when anhydrous, it is yellow/brown, when hydrated. The hydration also goes quite well, and iron (III) is not that toxic. The reaction
between anhydrous ferric chloride and water, however, is very violent and definitely has to be moderated.
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chloric1
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I do not think Cobalt is in the same level of toxicity as nickel. Most of what I have read about cobalt toxicity do not indicate life threatening
symptoms exempt in smaal children. Copper salts, especially of the strong acids, have a corrosive toxicity in addition to the heavy metal toxicity.
Copper is phytotoxic and a fungicide. I am not aware of cobalt having pesticide activity. But then again nickel is not in pesticides and I do agree
they are quite toxic.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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guy
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| Quote: |
Hydrogen peroxide is a reducing agent here? I always saw it as an oxidizing agent in this type of reaction. I have only seen it acting as a recuding
agent with high-valence metal ions, e.g. MnO4- |
Yes under acidic conditions Co(III) and even Mn(IV) will oxidize H2O2.
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unionised
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Fe+++ is more toxic than most people give it credit for (though it's not as bad as Cu, Co, and Ni).
What are you actually trying to do here Mericad?
BTW, this is the sort of thing I meant.
http://www.drierite.com/catalog3/page4b.cfm
(This product is CaSO4 rather than silica.)
[Edited on 23-6-2006 by unionised]
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mericad193724
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I will see if I can get some of the drierite this weekend, thanks
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jamit
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I made cobalt chloride this week using pottery carbonates. I put excess amt of carbonate into muriatic acid until the fizzling stopped and there was
a little bit of undissolved carbonate. I gravity filtered to separate the insoluble from the solution of cobalt chloride. I then placed it into a
desiccator to dry. I have these crystals as you can see in the picture below.
Sorry I can't seem to cut and paste my pictures.  anyone know I to upload pictures?
I have several questions to ask: 1. why is the color so darkly purple. The cobalt chloride I purchased is much lighter in color, a bright purple. 2.
Do I have the dihydrate or the hexahydrate and how can you tell?
[Edited on 23-4-2011 by jamit]
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Arthur Dent
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I'd love to see the picture. When you click on "post reply" you'll see an "attachment" button below the text window. Click on it and select your image
as attachment. Make sure to resize it to 72 dpi so it's not too massive.
The anhydrous powder is light blue, but air moisture soon turns it back to the hexahydrate. For deeply colored salts, a large crystal will always be
darker than a finely grated powder of the same material.
In solution, it should have a nice burgundy color, like wine or grape juice, but when strongly heated, the solution turns blue.
Robert
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
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jamit
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Hey Arthur thanks for the "attachment" help. I'll attach a picture later
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redox
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If you are not near a pottery store, just buy the cobalt carbonate on ebay. I have purchased a half-pound for about 24 USD, and CoCO3 is 46% cobalt.
My quite small but growing Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/RealChemLabs
Newest video: Synthesis of Chloroform
The difference between chemists and chemical engineers: Chemists use test tubes, chemical engineers use buckets. |
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The WiZard is In
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Quote: Originally posted by chloric1  | | I do not think Cobalt is in the same level of toxicity as nickel. Most of what I have read about cobalt toxicity do not indicate life threatening
symptoms exempt in smaal children. Copper salts, especially of the strong acids, have a corrosive toxicity in addition to the heavy metal toxicity.
Copper is phytotoxic and a fungicide. I am not aware of cobalt having pesticide activity. But then again nickel is not in pesticides and I do agree
they are quite toxic. |
Cobalt poisoning in a 6-year-old
The Lancet Vol. 335 pg. 981
[Sanned - and you know what that means!]
SIR—A 6-year-old boy was admitted to hospital at 1530 h on April 12, 1989. About 7
hours earlier his mother had told him to make a drink for his 4-year-old sister. He added
to a blackcurrant cordial ('Ribena') half a teaspoon (about 2-5 g) of cobalt chloride
crystals from a toy crystal-growing set that is widely available in UK supermarket chains
(figure). His mother, suspecting that he had added something, such as soap, told him to
drink it himself. He drank two-thirds of a glass at 0850 without saying what he had done
and went to school. During the morning he complained of abdominal pain and vomited.
The mother suspected that he might have swallowed some crystals, and the boy was
taken to the local emergency department at 1300, where he was given an emetic. He
vomited three times. He was transferred to the children's ward at another hospital at
1530. Physical examination was normal and cardiac monitoring revealed no
abnormalities. His serum contained cobalt at 7230 nmol/1 (4020 nmol/l in whole blood);
the normal range is 2-17 nmol/l for plasma and whole blood. His initial blood count was
Hb 11.9 g/dI, and white cells 4900/0 (granulocytes 35%, lymphocytes 59%, monocytes
6%). Examination of the blood film confirmed neutropenia. Blood urea and electrolytes
were normal. He was discharged after 48 h.
[Table] Cobalt, in blood and in urine, cleared rapidly and no specific treatment for
cobalt poisoning was needed.
Cobalt is an essential trace element and daily intakes am 30-60 Pg (0.5-1.0 unol) in
children. Cobalt salts are relatively non-toxic: and daily doses of 25-40 mg cobalt have
been used in blood disorders such as the anaemia in renal failure and thalassaernia.
However, prolonged treatment may cause depression of erythropoicsis, flushing, chest
pain, dermatitis, tinnitus, nausea and vomiting, nerve deafness, thyroid hyperplasia,
myxoedema, congestive cardiac failure, and renal damage. In this boy, who took about
2 g cobalt chloride, toxicity manifested as gastrointestinal effects and neutropenia.
Jacobziner and Raybin' described a 19-month-old boy who took about 30 m! of cobalt
chloride solution. He became cyanotic and died 4 h after the ingestion. Necropsy
revealed little about the primary cause of death. The liver, kidneys, and spleen
contained 89-4 mg cobalt. Serum cobalt levels were not measured. In 1988 Everson et
al' described a 14-year-old girl who ingested about 96 mg cobalt from a chemistry set. A
blood sample, 12 h after ingestion, contained 1320 nmol/I cobalt and chelation therapy
was started; at 22 h her blood cobalt level was 119 nmol/l.
Beer drinkers' cobalt cardiomyopathy was first noted in Quebec,[3] where 48 cases
with 20 deaths were recognised. Further cases were reported from the United States
and Belgium. Cobaltous sulphate had been added to the beer as a defoaming agent,
and this was thought to have been mainly responsible for the acute myocardial
damage," though nutritional factors may contribute by increasing sensitivity to cobalt
toxicity. [5]
Crystal-growing sets are potentially hazardous. This boy's toy also contained copper
sulphate, and half a teaspoon of that would have been fatal. During preparation of this
report one of us (H. T. D.) was involved in monitoring four schoolboys who ingested
small amounts of copper sulphate from a chemistry set. Clearly urgent action is needed
to control the use of these sets. Everson et al [2] investigated three chemistry sets,
containing a total of 51 chemicals. Of 38 chemicals evaluated 66% were present in
amounts that would be toxic (53%) or lethal (13%) to a 2-year-old child. Only one set
had child-proof containers but for 65% of potentially toxic and all the potentially lethal
chemicals first-aid instructions were provided.
E. S. MUCKLOW
S. J. GRIFFIN
Paediatric Department,
St Mary's Hospital,
Newport Isle of Wight P030 5TG UK
H. TREVOR DFLVES
B. SuatAK
Trace Element Unit
Department of Clinical Biochemistry
Southampton General Hospital
1. Jacobzmer H, Raybin HW. Poison control: accidental cobalt poisoning. Arch
Pediatrics 1961; 7114- 200-05.
2. Everson GW, Norman SA, Casey JP. Chemistry set chemicals: an evalulation of their
potential. Vet Hum Toxicol 1988 30:589-92
3. Morin YL, Foley AR, Martineau G, Rossel J. Quebec beer drinkers' cardiomyopathy:
forty-eight cases Can Med Assoc 1967; 97:881-43.
4. Morin Y, Daniel P. Quebec beer drinkers' cardiomyopathy. etiological considerations.
Can Med Assoc 1967; 97.926-28.
5. Alexander CS. Cobalt-beer cardiomyophy: a clinical and pathological study of twenty
eight cases. Am J Med 1972,53:395-417.
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