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Author: Subject: Reactions that release nitrogen gas (or other relatively "safe" inert gasses)?
gatewaycityca
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[*] posted on 20-2-2015 at 19:11
Reactions that release nitrogen gas (or other relatively "safe" inert gasses)?


Hi guys, I haven't been on here in quite a while. But I have another newbie question. I built a kind of simple little turbine "engine" which uses air pressure to spin a turbine wheel. It drives a small DC motor, working as a generator, with reduction gears. It does work, and it does generate a tiny bit of electricity. (About 1 volt at most! LOL) I had planned to use C02 to drive the turbine, with a simple vinegar and baking soda reaction. But I was curious, are there are chemical reactions I could use that would release another gas that would be safe to play around with? I was thinking about oxygen by combining bleach and peroxide, but I'm a little hesitant about that. Then I was thinking about nitrogen, since from what I understand, it's fairly inert.

I'm looking for something where I can easily combine two substances (preferably liquids if possible), which releases a gas that will be stored in a bottle, balloons, etc and mildly pressurized. Just enough pressure to spin the turbine.

By the way, here is the "engine" I made. I took the turbine wheel from a mattress inflator I took apart. Please don't laugh! :)




turbine.jpg - 1000kB
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[*] posted on 20-2-2015 at 19:46


Carbon dioxide is about as safe as it gets. Unless you plan on making tons of it with no ventilation you'll be just fine. Oxygen would be a much bigger hazard. Nitrogen isn't very easy to isolate quickly, an ammonium salt and a nitrite salt in solution will produce some in hot water, but it's not that fast.



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Mailinmypocket
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[*] posted on 20-2-2015 at 20:05


No heating required and easy to control, dilute sodium nitrite onto sulfamic acid.

http://mattson.creighton.edu/N2/index.html




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[*] posted on 20-2-2015 at 23:28


I agree. CO2 is probably the best and easiest for what you are trying to do.
I opened this thread because I like the idea of being able to produce gases at need. I don't have a method for making N2. In the spirit of sharing the love I offer the following:

Cl2 -- HCl and TCCA
O2 -- decomposition of hypochlorite bleach using cobalt chloride catalyst
CO2 -- obvious, carbonate and acid
Argon -- burp a light bulb under water into a zip-seal plastic bag. (Obviously you need to choose your bulb carefully. Many have other gases as well.)
He -- who needed that party balloon anyway?

N2 -- anyone have a different method? I currently have no nitrites nor sulfamic acid.
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[*] posted on 21-2-2015 at 02:34


Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
In the spirit of sharing the love I offer the following:

Cl2 -- HCl and TCCA
O2 -- decomposition of hypochlorite bleach using cobalt chloride catalyst
CO2 -- obvious, carbonate and acid
Argon -- burp a light bulb under water into a zip-seal plastic bag. (Obviously you need to choose your bulb carefully. Many have other gases as well.)
He -- who needed that party balloon anyway?


Don't forget NH3 from ammonium salts and strong bases like NaOH. The nice thing about this method is that it's self-sustaining in the sense that it generates its own water to keep the reaction going, which means you don't need to continuously drip something into/onto something else for a steady stream of gas. Just mix the two solids together and add a little water to get it going.

Ammonia is probably not the best gas for what the OP has in mind, but I figured I'd mention it anyway.
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[*] posted on 21-2-2015 at 03:51


Quote:
I don't have a method for making N2.


You could do what airbags do and heat sodium azide. The nitrogen is certainly inert, but sodium azide is not a walk in the park. I'd stick with the carbon dioxide myself.

sparky (~_~)




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gatewaycityca
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[*] posted on 21-2-2015 at 17:41


Thanks everyone for the advice so far. I like the idea of sodium nitrite and sulfamic acid, but where would I even find them? I've never even heard of sulfamic acid. (Edit: I just did a quick search on Google, and apparently it is used to clean bricks and tiles, and Home Depot has it). But what about the sodium nitrate?

I probably will stick to CO2 for now. I have a bigger turbine from some kind of ventilation fan. I was planning to take it apart later on and experiment with a larger engine that could actually do something useful. I wonder how much pressure you could reasonably expect to get from baking soda and vinegar? I mean, if I had a system where it was flowing through tubes into a mixing tank of some kind by gravity feed, I wonder how much pressure I could get without having to use ridiculous amounts of vinegar. The resulting C02 would fill a small bottle or tank through another tube and a one-way valve. I'd use another tube and control valve to vent the pressure and spin the turbine.

I'm hoping to be able to use something similar with mixing other chemicals to use nitrogen.

Of course, all this sounds good...but I have no idea if it would actually work or be practical. So far, the little experiments I've done with the small turbine I have did work. But that's on a very small scale.




[Edited on 2-22-2015 by gatewaycityca]

[Edited on 2-22-2015 by gatewaycityca]
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[*] posted on 21-2-2015 at 17:48


If all you want is to turn turbine blades, why not use compressed AIR? Cheap, easily available. No wastes to dispose of.



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[*] posted on 21-2-2015 at 17:53


Bert, I wanted to make an "engine" where you just add the chemicals and it generates its own mechanical power from the reaction.
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[*] posted on 21-2-2015 at 17:59


I saw a Mythbusters episode long ago where they attempted to built and operate an engine powered by black powder. The end determination was that black powder and even other faster pyro mixes contain much less usable energy per tablespoon than gasoline or diesel combusting with air. I imagine the same is true for other, slower gas generating reactions.



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[*] posted on 21-2-2015 at 18:04


Make up a mixture of DRY baking soda and cream of tartar (Potassium Hydrogen tartrate) from the grocery store. Place in your "fuel tank". When you want to start , just add water...

[Edited on 22-2-2015 by Bert]




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[*] posted on 21-2-2015 at 19:34


XeF<sub>2</sub> and aqueous base for Xe gas ;)

Aqueous azide plus ceric ammonium nitrate for nitrogen gas.

Oxygen by hydrogen peroxide and manganese dioxide. Higher strength hydrogen peroxide from beauty supply stores and manganese dioxide from batteries. Used to use this to fill welding tanks, makes high pressures reliably.

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