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Madog
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Sucralose Nitrate
for a while ive been wondering about nitrateing Sucralose, aka splenda, its a non-calorie sweetner. its just sucrose with 4 Cls subsituteing for 4 of
the OHs.
i took 3 packets of splenda, they each contain a gram of sucralose. i added them to 15ml of nitric acid and they disolved easily, then i put it in an
ice bath and slowly added 30ml of sulfuric acid with stirring. it turned cloudy and there were chunks of product forming. after the addition i let it
sit for a little while and then crashed it into some water and let it sit on my coffee machine hot plate while it settled. it was pretty liquidy on
the bottom but i was able to get it all out and stuff. it looksl ike i have a good yield but its not weighed.
some of it actualy looked yellow, and some was green, but now sience they mixed when i fished it out its white, strange. this must have to do with the
other things in the splenda.
it is alot more gooey than sucrose nitrate, its sticky. i burnt some and i could smell the chlorine. it burns more inconsistantly than sucrose nitrate
because it cnat be over tetranitrate. this is also why its so gooey
the point of this was to make an explosive that released a toxic gas on decomposition, im going to set it off later.
does anyone else have any ideas like this? just anything strange or new to nitrate?
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Madog
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i just set some of the sucralose nitrate off with a hammer, its pretty sensitive but not as sensitive as PETN, close though
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a123x
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That's pretty cool. I might tr making some sucralose nitrate when I get the chance. Sounds like it has a pretty nice sensitivity, sensitive
enough to initiate with a hammer but is still safe to handle and also easy to make. This is a bit off topic but how sensitive is normal sucrose
nirate?
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Madog
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well, the whole reason i made it was for the hell of it and because it releases chlorine which is cool. it is actualy a mixture of nitrates of some
other things that are in the sweetner too.
sucrose nitrate is pretty sensitive, more so than PETN.
for something to use i would just make sucrose nitrate. but sucralose nitrate is cool. sucrose nitrate is alot easier to work with cause its not so
damn gooey!(at least if you make it so its not under nitrated)
they are both really neat explosives
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a123x
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Is sucrose nitrate soluble in acetone? I ask because my only source of reasonably pure nitric is to make it with sulfuric acid and calcium nitrate
with calcium sulfate being insoluble. I don't want to have to bother with filtering the calcium sulfate out but rather I'd prefer to just
add the sucrose, then add the H2SO4 slowly in small amounts at a time in accordance with the only procedure I could find for sucrose nitrate. The
problem would be that CaSO4 will endup remaining in the product. I figure if sucrose nitrate is soluble in acetone I could dissolve it in acetone then
filter out the CaSO4. Also, is the slow addingof the H2SO4 necessary in the production of sucrose nitrate or could it be done more along the lines of
cellulose nitrate synths in which the H2SO4 and HNO3 are mixed before the cellulose is added?
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Madog
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you dont have any KNO3 NaNO3?
it is soluble in acetone, and not in water.
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a123x
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I have NH4NO3, from that I can produce other nitrates. The reason I would use Ca(NO3)2 is because CaSO4 is insoluble so that the reaction between
Ca(NO3)2 and H2SO4 would end up not having any metal cations in it. Pretty much it just produces a purer HNO3.
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Microtek
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You should just use NH4NO3 + H2SO4 then. The AN dissolves nicely in sulfuric acid, though it tends to solidify at about 0 C. You can get around this
by using excess sulfuric.
Then just use the solution directly as your nitration acid and drown in ice and water when the reaction is complete; the only insoluble is your
product.
This procedure works when synthesizing all nitric esters that I can think of from EGDN and NG over nitromannitol and other nitrated sugars to PETN.
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Madog
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sucrose carbonises on contact with H2SO4, ever seen one of those little kiddy science shows where the dude throws some H2SO4 in a beaker of sugar and
it makes a colum of ash?
does manitol carbonise as easy?
get it really cold, the reason why the sucrose/sucralose is disolved in the HNO3 first and H2SO4 is added carefuly is cause of the carbonation
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a123x
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Yesterday I didn't boil my 2NH4NO3 + Ca(NO3)2 solution long enough since it still smells quite strongly of ammonia so I'm jut going to go
ahead and try using H2SO4 + NH4NO3 to nitrate some sucrose.
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a123x
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success
Well I think I've succeeded in making sucrose nitrate. I added NH4NO3 to H2SO4 let it dissolve which took an annoyingly long time since the
NH4NO3 wasn't very finely powdered. Then I added the sugar which was not reduced to carbon. At this point it was like a rather thik syrup. Then a
little at a time I added more H2SO4. Still a pretty thick syrup. I stirred it for a while until I started noticing some chunks forming in the mixture.
I allowed about 10 minutes from the start of them forming to when I ended the nitration by pouring the mix into ice water. The white and rather
moldable did not dissolve in the water. I added some sodium bicarbonate to the solution to neutralize it a bit then poured it into a filter and as I
type this it is filtering. I don't see what these white chunks could be other than sucrose nitrate. Well I have to go remove the product from the
filter and completely neutralize it.
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a123x
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Only semisuccessful. It was really quite moist so I decided to dry it on an ashtray on a small hotplate for keeping coffee mugs warm. This turned out
tobe a bad idea because it got too hot and seems to have decomposed some of my product. The rest I allowed to cool down a bit and then I scraped it
off into a little ball an lit it. It deflagrated decently, not as well as fluffy cellulose trinitrate but I think as well as NC thats been dissolved
in acetone and rehardened into a solid piece. I also took a small amount and tried detonating it with a hammer, with no success. I think my mistakes
were that I used stoichiometrical ratios of nitrate to sucrose when I really should have used excess nitrate. Also the weather hasn't been very
good so I can't concentrate my drain cleaner so the H2SO4 is most likely only aound 93%. The weather seems decent today though so I might be able
to do that today and then make a more succesful batch tonight.
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Madog
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how much did you use? you know, sucrose nitrate can be as high as a octaanitrate
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a123x
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I used 12g of NH4NO3 to 5.9g of sucrose. This puts the ratio of NH4NO3 to sucrose at just over 8moles NH4NO3 to 1mole sucrose. I imagen that a large
part of the problem is really just that my sulfuric acid really wasn't as concentrated as it really should have been.
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Microtek
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Remember that the sticky product will retain a LOT of acid after neutralization, so you should dissolve it in acetone and add some bicarbonate to the
acetone solution. Then pour into water to precipitate. It might not crystallize very fast, but leave the ( water ) soln overnight and it should
collect at the bottom.
The liquid might still be very opague, but I think this is mostly oxidation products and other impurities.
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Madog
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ok, hm, good idea microtek, heat the water to melt it after it precipitates and get it under control(i sugest)
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Krypton
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Interested too is the sweet nitration of
melampyrit
hexanitroxymelampyrit
O2NO-CH2-(CHONO2)4-ONO2
or the experimental way to the Peroxide of the tetranitrate,
the dicyclonitroxy isomer and the tricyclonitroxy isomer --->
dicyclotetranitroxymelampyritperoxide
>O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-O-O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-O->
and
tricyclotetranitroxymelampyritperoxide
>O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-O-O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-O-(CHONO2)4-O->
In convention with my ancestor.
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Krypton
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Error correction of the copy mistakes to my last post !!!
hexanitroxymelampyrit
O2NO-CH2-(CHONO2)4-CH2-ONO2
dicyclotetranitroxymelampyritperoxide
>O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-CH2-O-O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-CH2-O->
tricyclotetranitroxymelampyritperoxide
>O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-CH2-O-O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-CH2-O-O-CH2-(CHONO2)4-CH2-O->
In convention with my ancestor.
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Madog
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i looked in the bottle of sucralose nitrate, the substance is fuill of bubbles
then i opened it and took a little sniff, the Cl was enough to make me jerk back. it decomposes
may just be from acid tho
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Flying Dutchman
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al23x, you used 12 grams of NH<sub>4</sub>NO<sub>3</sub> and 5.9 grams of normal sugar, but how many grams/ml's of
H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> did you use? You make a statement that you put as much
H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> in to make it a little less sticky.
This sounds like a fun explosive to make as a test, but has anyone ever tried it in a bigger scale? Like a detonation of >100 grams?
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Madog
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i would, but the yields suck so bad, it would be awsome sience its high density, sensitive, and damn powerful(if its highly nitrated)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Krypton:
melampyrit = sorbitol or manitol or else?
Never eard of that polyol.
Sorbitol is HOCH2-(-CHOH-)4-CH2OH
Manitol is the same but stereochemisty is different.
You can have:
8 different stereoisomers!
Inositol is also interesting being cyclohexanhexol it could lead to a cyclic hexanitrate ester (-CHONO2-)6
Normal suggar is aldohexose
HOCH2-CHOH-CHOH-CHOH-CHOH-CH=O
C6H12O6
Complete reaction with HNO3 will lead to
O2NOCH2(-CHONO2-)4CO2H plus oxydation compounds.
Because of the acid moity the pentaester is unstable and hard to stabilise...reason why production has been stoped just after war where it was used in
gunpowder in place of NG (because there was a lack of glycerol).
It is much better to reduce the suggar first in a way to get sorbitol and then to make it react to get the hexaester... no -CO2H, thus neutral.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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a123x
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Hey maddog, do you suppose that a flash powder salute in the 3-5g range might be enough to detonate sucrose nitrate in quantities of like 10g+. I was
just thinking about this because I think it would be pretty decent and safe as booster for ANFO or just as a charge by itself rather than having to
use a sensitive organic peroxide.
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Krypton
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Melampyrit is only a special form or stereoisomer of hexanehexol for the microbiology.  
The mp, density and PH is a bit different
to the others.
In convention with my ancestor.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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I have at home:
*80% bw sorbitol solution
*4 kg pentaeritritol
*mesoinositol
*Polyvinylic alcohol
I can't wait to try nitration of those, but I need to redistill some 98% HNO3 ... and now my mother is too often at home.
About flash to detonate solid polynitric ester...yes but you would need confinement.
Better use CuO/Al explosive and ultraheat generating thermite (4600°C at 2km/s should give enough kick to detonate anything).
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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