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Magpie
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Society for Amateur Scientists
In another thread blogfast25 suggested that US recreational chemists should form an association for mutual support. Something like that has existed
for some time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Amateur_Scientists
It seems, like everything else, this now resides on facebook.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Zombie
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It appears that association is now defunct but another has been formed to replace it.
http://www.openscientist.org/2013/09/an-association-for-amat...
Worth looking into further.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Magpie
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Interesting, Zombie. I take it you saw the link to the facebook page for the Association of Amateur Scientists. It is at the bottom of the page in
the Wiki article I linked.
As I peruse these articles I see how this could work well for mathematicians, computer programmers, nature observers, astronomers, theoretical
physicists, and others that don't have a component that scares the public/authorities. Physics with high voltage, chemistry with hazardous reagents,
and biology with risky microbes may find it hard to be accepted. These latter forms are a big part of sciencemadness.
[Edited on 18-4-2015 by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Loptr
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Yeah, but even pytotechnics are more accepted in society when it is does as part of a guild or group. I have been to a couple Crackerjacks shows, and
I have heard they are pretty popular around Northern Va.
As long as it seems to be associated with an *official* organization, it might be more able to pass the initial sanity checks.
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blogfast25
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Interesting that such initiatives have already existed although they seem to have gone a little dormant currently. I wonder seriously why that is. In
a society that highly appreciates science and technology and has undoubtedly numerous 'citizen scientists', creating an umbrella organization should
not be extremely difficult (although these things are never easy either, of course).
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  | | Physics with high voltage, chemistry with hazardous reagents, and biology with risky microbes may find it hard to be accepted. These latter forms are
a big part of sciencemadness. |
If the latter is true, then creating an initiative using SM as a temporary platform could be starting point.
I honestly believe there is strength in numbers and unity. If the current climate of intimidation worsens, then ‘hiding’ as some here advocate, is
not a solution to anything. Secrecy makes one only look more suspicious, IMHO.
And why hide something if you’re not doing anything illegal? Be PROUD of what you’re doing!
It could be a good idea to see how other hobbyists engaging in potentially hazardous activities are organised (assuming they are, of course). Hobby
rocketeers spring to mind: potentially dangerous and with potentially nefarious misuses like home-grown terrorism.
Something I think that urgently needs doing is getting a better, more objective gauge on the size of the 'harassment problem'. How prevalent is the
problem of hobbyists having their homes raided for no good reason? What's the general 'mood' among citizen scientists with regards to the relation
between their hobby and LEO?
[Edited on 19-4-2015 by blogfast25]
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blogfast25
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Actually, that link by Zombie, links to the CSA, which appears well on its way:
http://citizenscienceassociation.org/
Definitely worth looking into more.
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violet sin
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Just signed up for the CSA
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blogfast25
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Hurray, first SMer (I presume) inside of CSA!
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Zombie
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I''ve looked thru the site. Apparently they are a fledgling association looking to recruit members..At the present time they are offering free
membership, and allowing new members to have an input on the structure f the association.
I will look around a bit more to find more info.
At the present time it does appear to be something I might like to be a part of. As has been said... Strength in numbers.
Very good suggestion Mr. Blogfast. Sometimes one word changes everything.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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blogfast25
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Zombie:
My main reservation with regard to CSA is that their definition of 'citizen science' is not exactly 'amateur science' as we see it here at SM,
although there is definitely some overlap.
You're right that they're 'allowing new members to have an input on the structure of the association', which could be a great motive for SMers to get
in on the ground floor and help shape it. With internal influence it might be possible to steer some of the Association's attention to the legal
plight of some of its members, including hobby chemists. It potentially beats having to build something from the ground up, of course.
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violet sin
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They had an optional, anonymous survey prior to actually filling out the membership form. Both separate pages to ensure anonymity. It asked several
questions like " what perks would you consider enticing to join and pay membership?" Paraphrased. They had some predetermined answers and an other
box where you could elaborate. You don't have to join to complete the anonymous survey and help give them input. For the above question I opted
other, and put access to research papers/journals. They also said after the working framework is up, what kind of special interests should they focus
on. I othered-in, validation of serious home/DIY scientists.
Feel free to go speak your mind. The survey took like 10min or so. Not bad
[Edited on 19-4-2015 by violet sin]
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Texium
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I really like this idea. I will also look into joining that association. The only concern that I have with it is that there may be a possibility of
some intra-institutional conflict between SMers and other members of the organization if we end up being a large population among the group and the
founding members begin to feel as if we are taking over in some way. It's definitely worth a try though. If it doesn't work out, well, perhaps we
could start our own association if the current ones won't suit our needs. As previously stated, SM is a great platform to get something like that
started if necessary. I mean, we already have many elements that are required for such an organization, and it wouldn't take a ridiculous amount of
additional effort to get it off the ground.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | Zombie:
My main reservation with regard to CSA is that their definition of 'citizen science' is not exactly 'amateur science' as we see it here at SM,
although there is definitely some overlap.
You're right that they're 'allowing new members to have an input on the structure of the association', which could be a great motive for SMers to get
in on the ground floor and help shape it. With internal influence it might be possible to steer some of the Association's attention to the legal
plight of some of its members, including hobby chemists. It potentially beats having to build something from the ground up, of course.
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I would have to believe that members of your caliber, and many of the other highly educated members here would be a great asset to their association.
Someone on my level is good for building numbers, and the occasional bright idea (not to sell myself short but look at the company I am keeping).
Perhaps a "joining of forces" between Science Madness, and the association (Admins. blessing of course) could be a huge leap for both.
Just thinking out loud but I'm sure you all get the idea. I didn't see where they have a forum. I might have missed that so far...
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | I really like this idea. I will also look into joining that association. The only concern that I have with it is that there may be a possibility of
some intra-institutional conflict between SMers and other members of the organization if we end up being a large population among the group and the
founding members begin to feel as if we are taking over in some way. It's definitely worth a try though. If it doesn't work out, well, perhaps we
could start our own association if the current ones won't suit our needs. As previously stated, SM is a great platform to get something like that
started if necessary. I mean, we already have many elements that are required for such an organization, and it wouldn't take a ridiculous amount of
additional effort to get it off the ground. |
Your post came up just as I was posting. While I do not know what is required technically speaking to establish an association I imagine you are also
correct that SM has the member base to be a force in any right.
Perhaps we could design a club "Patch", and ride mopeds!
I can envision a couple hundred guys wearing Lab Coats, pocket protectors, and thick clear safety glasses taking over the local Dairy Queen parking
lot. 
Sorry for that... 
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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blogfast25
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Yesterday I completed the no obligations Membership Questionnaire:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q62P9GY
But I haven't signed up yet.
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Zombie
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KUDOS!!! I value your insights so I am certain they will have real value for the A.A.S. as well.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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The Volatile Chemist
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Shit.... I Just thought of starting The Esoteric Chemists Society five days ago and was in planning phase :/ Still doing it. I'll post something in
whimsy tomorrow describing it. If anyone thinks it's a good idea then, we could get something started....I'm sure you all think it's one of my typical
lame Ideas, but it's lasted 5 days in my head, and I still think it's a good Idea, so.....  We'll wait and see...
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phlogiston
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The Society for Amateur Scientists published some interesting projects/articles over the past decades.
They also contributed a great column for some time to New Scientist called 'The Amateur Scientist"
http://amasci.com/amateur/sciam1.html
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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Brain&Force
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Yay, I get to plug Rador Labs!
A lot of our goal involves informing the public about amateur chemistry and fighting chemophobia. We could always use some help with getting videos
and other materials out. Praxichys helped us outline stuff for keeping the group organized, but we haven't heard from him in a while.
We have a Skype group if you're interested in joining. There's also a Skype group for SM as a whole if you want to join in...U2U me if interested.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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woelen
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The CSA in my view is quite different from what we pursue at sciencemadness. CSA does not necessarily promote people doing science at their homes in
an amateur setting. What they promote is that ordinary people (citizens) can control at least to some extent the research done (e.g. the subject of
research, the direction in which a certain development should go), but still that research is done in an official lab of a licensed company,
university or other institution.
I also think that we do not necessarily perform research. Some of us may do so, but most of us do experiments, mainly for the fun of it, sometimes for
getting a better understanding of the subject, and sometimes just because it is "cool".
Still, the CSA can be a valuable addition to society, but I do not expect much from it in terms of promoting home/amateur science.
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Zombie
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I did raise the question of what one person can do to help make changes.
I'll have to follow that route, and see where it leads.
You have to believe that grass roots are (is) better than nothing.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen |
Still, the CSA can be a valuable addition to society, but I do not expect much from it in terms of promoting home/amateur science.
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The CSA is quite literally in its formative years. You (SM) can help shape it in your image.
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woelen
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We can help shape it, but completely transforming it is not what we should do. IMHO the CSA is not mainly targeted at amateur science and if we really
want to promote that, then I think that a new society (or other existing society) must be used for that purpose. Such a new/other society of course
can maintain good relations with the CSA.
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blogfast25
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woelen:
I think there's more overlap between 'citizen science' and 'amateur science' than you make out, although they're not the same. There could also be
some CSA-specific projects that might be of interest to SM, stuff that some SMers might want to actively participate in (that's one reason
why I'm considering joining). For many 'lay' budding hobby scientists, taking part in something that goes much beyond one's own potting shed could be
a very effective part of their learning curve.
Of course we're not talking about 'transforming' CSA, rather more like getting some limited influence/attention. There certainly wouldn't be much to
lose by getting some feelers out. Of course CSA might cold shoulder us but there really is only one way to find out, isn't there?
The alternative is to create a new/other society, like you mentioned. Needless to say, that's not w/o its own set of problems.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | woelen:
I think there's more overlap between 'citizen science' and 'amateur science' than you make out, although they're not the same. There could also be
some CSA-specific projects that might be of interest to SM, stuff that some SMers might want to actively participate in (that's one reason
why I'm considering joining). For many 'lay' budding hobby scientists, taking part in something that goes much beyond one's own potting shed could be
a very effective part of their learning curve.
. |
I could not agree more.
I have found over, and over again that, no matter what the undertaking there is very little academic growth without outside influence.
Actually I can see where being involved in separate, yet related organizations would be very helpful for lots of us.
You have a group of fellas on one side working on new routes to chemical compounds (aka Aga's Challenges), while the other group is busy lobbying for
easier access to chemicals, eliminating drawn shades, making life "real" for amateur chemists.
Without input from both groups there can really be no focus. It does no good to plead for a band aid if you don't know the nature of the injury, so to
speak.
I'm convincing myself of the need to join both the CSA, and any other grass roots chemistry group that has a real goal. I kind of like the idea.
It's basically a win / win. (IMHO)
[Edited on 4-21-2015 by Zombie]
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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