| Pages:
1
2 |
lordmagnus
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 10-1-2006
Location: Webster, TX
Member Is Offline
Mood: No longer annoyed ( I found a new girlfriend)
|
|
Idiots with chemicals
Yesterday the Texas City, TX police and FBI had to do a detonation in place in an apt. building, where the day before to idiots playing around with
PEROXIDE BASED EXPLOSIVES managed to set some off, and kill one of the two kids playing with it. Turns out they were using the
Hydrogren peroxide and Acetone synthesis, and they didn't cool the mixture very effectively. This sort of foolishness is what makes it hard for the
rest of us, even those who are not working with explosives, and hazards reactions to continue our work without notice or ridicule.
**UPDATE**
Turns out it wasn't the synthesis that caused the explosion, they had stored some in a container, the survivor said the explosion occured when the
other guy went to remove some from the container (FRICTION TRIGGERED). The roommate who survived is being held for a misdemeanor false police report,
and a 3rd deg. felony, possesion of explosives without permits. (see picture below)
[Edited on 7/21/2006 by lordmagnus]
[Edited on 7/21/2006 by lordmagnus]
I\'ll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he is gonna start a fair fight, or if he\'s bothrn me allot, or if I am getin payed good, or probably
over a good woman.
-Jayne Cobb (Serenity) |
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7976
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
Yes, this indeed is very bad, most of course to the family of the involved person(s), but also for all of us. In the city, where I live, a year ago or
something like that, suddenly many k3wls liked to make so-called crofty bombs 
(I don't go into details here). One of the ingredients was NaOH. After a few incidents with these crofty bombs, many shops were hesitant to sell NaOH,
especially to young male persons. There even was a short discussion about prohibiting the sale of NaOH, but fortunately that discussion died away
quickly after the incidents with crofty bombs stopped. But you see how easily a certain very useful chemical can be taken from the shelves because of
some stupid actions of stupid k3wls.
|
|
|
Chris The Great
Hazard to Others
Posts: 463
Registered: 29-10-2004
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yeah, the synthesis is pretty tame. It's events like these that make me avoid peroxides in any sort of quantity.
It's a real shame isn't it, either they stay alive and cause havoc, or they die and cause havoc. Either way we lose every time a k3wl is born.
I imagine it must have been quite a bit to kill the kid when exploding while unpressed. But how did some of the material survive the initial
explosion?
|
|
|
lordmagnus
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 10-1-2006
Location: Webster, TX
Member Is Offline
Mood: No longer annoyed ( I found a new girlfriend)
|
|
They had several containers of it through out the whole apt. including detonators of other types in one closet, and bombs in another. The kid that
survived is connected with an anarchist group.
I\'ll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he is gonna start a fair fight, or if he\'s bothrn me allot, or if I am getin payed good, or probably
over a good woman.
-Jayne Cobb (Serenity) |
|
|
neutrino
International Hazard
Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: oscillating
|
|
Anarchist group? Tame political party type anarchists, rabid anti-government nutjobs, or ABC-style lamers?
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
We shall always have kewls among us. Their like indulge in all types of risky behaviour. Take for example their abuse of automobiles, such as drag
racing, drunk driving, etc. However, this behaviour never in the slightest threatens the availability of the automobile to the general public. It's
just so damn easy and politically correct to stand up and say that we must ban the sale of a given chemical to the public. "Think of the children ...blahblahblah."
The best we can do is to educate and counsel our kewls. I know that they feel invulnerable and therefore need not listen to anyone, but we still must
try. I feel that this forum does a good job of this, i.e., protecting our own, warning about dangerous reactions, etc.
Now making peroxides for bombs for terrorism is a whole different matter. Those kewls deserve what they get.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
mrjeffy321
Hazard to Others
Posts: 149
Registered: 11-6-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
What city was this? In your home town of Webster, TX?
I would think there would be some type of news story about it, however brief, especially if someone died from the accident.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
As much as this is common sense, we need to bring back personal responsibility. Back in the day, as I understand it, if some kid broke a law, for
example, broke a window, he would be punished and blamed for it. These days we get the sort of bull like 'he had a bad childhood and is lashing out
at society for it, he shouldent be punished as he has suffered enough'. When will people learn that if people want to endanger themselves its not a
problem, if they endanger others they should be punished, but what they used to endanger others should not be outlawed. It is again the old arguement
of 'guns don't kill people, people kill people' but with chemicals.
EDIT: If these people were terrorists, they deserve whatever they get.
[Edited on 22-7-2006 by rogue chemist]
|
|
|
Organikum
resurrected
Posts: 2329
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
Mood: busy and in love
|
|
The kids need a decent education as they are obviously a little bit misguided but interested and able to pull something up whats more then you can say
of most adults nowadays. Restriction? Punishment? Well they are punished enough I would say and restriction is nonsense - guidance is whats needed.
The parents though need a kick into the ass and strict monitoring as they are obviously incompetent. Somebody who is not able to have a little bit a
eye on their kids is a danger to society and must be watched.
/ORG
|
|
|
lordmagnus
Hazard to Self
Posts: 92
Registered: 10-1-2006
Location: Webster, TX
Member Is Offline
Mood: No longer annoyed ( I found a new girlfriend)
|
|
Yeah, it's about 15 miles south of webster
| Quote: | Originally posted by mrjeffy321
What city was this? In your home town of Webster, TX?
I would think there would be some type of news story about it, however brief, especially if someone died from the accident. |
The NYCFD (New York Fire Dept) came down to analyze the scene, since this type of explosive is very rarely used, they wanted to get a good profile
on the kinda damage it does. Check google new for the keyword { texas city, apartment, explosion} Check my original post, I put up a pic of the blown
out apartment you can download, show dump trucks in front incase the explosion was really big, they could absorb some of the shock.
I\'ll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he is gonna start a fair fight, or if he\'s bothrn me allot, or if I am getin payed good, or probably
over a good woman.
-Jayne Cobb (Serenity) |
|
|
YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
|
|
What were they storing this stuff for anyway?
I rem when I was a K3wl back in the late 70s early 80`s you couldn`t wait for the TCAP or HMTA to dry so you gould go out and blow the crap out of
some tree stumps or rocks etc...
Storing it was unheard of!
makes me question if they were K3wlz / Terrorists or bloody Idiots!?
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
| Quote: | | FBI officials said they were forced to detonate the explosive inside the Texas City apartment because it was too unstable to move. The detonation
caused a small fire inside the apartment. The FBI could not immediately identify the explosive but believed it was mixed in the apartment.
|
They say it was TATP. http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou060719_mh_aptexpl...
I just don't understand why, if there was this material about, it couldnt be quenched with copious amounts of water/NaOH, to be drained into a
container set for disposal by chemical means.
Not for the first time, I wonder whether feds (that goes for all in the western world essentially, but particularly in the US since they like to be
dramatic) just like to play with toys, and deem a 'controlled explosion' safer than quenching, since this is what they are paid and trained for. Come
on! Even if it was in plastic jars, they could submerge this into a water tank, and carry it outside, to detonate it at some other place!
[Edited on 24-7-2006 by chemoleo]
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
Nicodem
Super Moderator
Posts: 4230
Registered: 28-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
What kind of idiots these police officials are? They could easily offer this whole thing as the usual present for the president. I don’t get it why
didn’t they just accuse the survivor that he and his dead friend wanted to blow up some government building, instead of only spreading rumors of
“their affiliation to this anarchist group”? Why doing such a sloppy work? With the new legislature they could put him in jail without letting the
relatives or anybody near him. They could even ship him to Guantanamo and make a huge terrorist story out of it. I mean, they already made it look
like they had a factory of acetone peroxide in their apartment, with all that action, evacuation and blowing up the apartment. Why the hell didn’t
they use this for one of the usual scare stories for the US brainwashed zombies? Everybody would believe it, no doubts about that. Seams like
sometimes even the US officials are unpredictable or just stupid enough to miss such nice opportunity. Or perhaps these boys were actually affiliated
with some governmental agency? Hm, Texas? Perhaps they are distant relatives of somebody in high position? Let’s see, they were obsessed with
blowing things up, were not particularly clever and potentially affiliated with terrorism. Sounds like a familiar genetic trait for a certain
(in)famous family from Texas.
Well, nevertheless I feel sorry for the one that died. There was no need for such a tragic end. I hope it serves as a lesson to other kewls (though I
doubt any will learn from it), but mostly I hope it won’t serve as a lesson to for the officials to put more control on OTC chemicals (only because
all the bad innovations in the US tends to move over to Europe sooner or later).
“Right now our focus is to get these chemicals under control,” said Chief Burby.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
|
|
|
not_important
International Hazard
Posts: 3873
Registered: 21-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well, he's in the hands of the Feds now, so the story may change to more what you suggest
http://news.galvestondailynews.com/story.lasso?ewcd=95ce0dbe...
Like that quote from chief Burby; Texas - register glassware, not guns. The locals never stop to think that once all the mad chemists are under
control, the authorities might be looking for new threat. Not to mention the fun they'll have controlling access to acetone or IPA and hydrogen
peroxide. End up like Japan, want H2O2 for an infected cut and you'll have to buy it as individual 5 ml doses.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
Well, this guys stupitity is causing more fallout:
http://ww.khou.com/news/local/houstonmetro/stories/khou06072...
View into the minds of sheeple:
http://ww.khou.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15639
Links must have an extra w in the www part.
[Edited on 26-7-2006 by rogue chemist]
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
But at lease the article is fair on the note of censorship:
| Quote: | Selway also says bomb-making manuals floating in cyberspace make his job tougher.
“As a bomb tech and HAZMAT guy we have to stay one step ahead, so we’re constantly staying on the Internet, trying to figure out what these guys
are doing,” Selway said.
Over the years calls have been made to ban this type of information from the Internet.
“We have created a technology which far outruns the available laws to control that technology,” said UH Professor Garth Jowett.
Prof. Jowett teaches Communications History at the university. Risk or not, he doesn’t believe in censorship.
“Censorship is a very slippery slope. What may start today with banning the anarchist’s cookbook, may end up tomorrow banning somebody’s
political thought,” Jowett said.
It’s a new reality in a brave new world. |
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
Chris The Great
Hazard to Others
Posts: 463
Registered: 29-10-2004
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
And, after they ban H2O2, someone will realize that the oxyclean stuff is even more concentrated anyway 
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
Rogue that link to the sheeple discussion is funny. Rednecks commenting on kewls - that's a great combination. 
[Edited on 27-7-2006 by Magpie]
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
|
|
to go a little further, how about banning Table salt, Icing sugar and electricity!?
Weedkiller and Sugar bombs were almost a hallmark of the IRA in the 70`s late 80`s.
there is NO SUCH THING as a "Bomb making chemical(s)" as soon as they Realise that, and actualy attack the PROBLEM itself (largely Ignorance), it`ll
never end.
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
|
|
|
jimwig
Hazard to Others
Posts: 215
Registered: 17-5-2003
Location: the sunny south
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
air, water and shit.
ban those. nobody needs them. and it would certainly stop all the would be terrorists not to mention Texas idiots who haven't a clue what they are
talking about. not to mention the human race.
freedom is not free. nor should it be.
oh I should mention the reason for shit. most effective if input is allowed with no chance of release.
[Edited on 27-7-2006 by jimwig]
|
|
|
Misanthropy
Hazard to Self
Posts: 69
Registered: 24-3-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Variable
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by chemoleo
| Quote: | F
Not for the first time, I wonder whether feds (that goes for all in the western world essentially, but particularly in the US since they like to be
dramatic) just like to play with toys, and deem a 'controlled explosion' safer than quenching, since this is what they are paid and trained for. Come
on! Even if it was in plastic jars, they could submerge this into a water tank, and carry it outside, to detonate it at some other place!
[Edited on 24-7-2006 by chemoleo] |
You're correct in this assertion you know. When I was about 14, the cops came through our apartment on an unrelated matter (Structural inspection!)
and, for some reason, went right to my bedroom. Here they found some 2 dozen bags of pyro essentials from the now defunct Square Lake Enterprises, all
plainly labeled and weighed. They found 1 single flash powder salute in the form of a pipe. They freaked when they saw this and said all the parafin
wax cubes I had laying about were C-4! HA! The cop trying to confiscate the "pipe bomb" didn't know what to do. He had a bag in hand and was dancing
around like a girl. I grabbed the "bomb", tossed it in the bag he held and he about shit himself right there. He berated me for that one a bit. ;-)
The local cops called in the bomb squad and another county's cops. About 30 quacking geese in my bedroom snooping. The bomb squad disposed of my
little item before proper documentation could be made. They had to give back all my equipment but seized Weingart's "Pyrotechnics" book as evidence..
They left all of my illegal commercial fireworks too!
I went to Juvenile Hall for a month and a half pending investigation on charges of manufacture and possession of explosives.... 3 lawyers later &
with the local head honcho of the Bomb Squad as the DA's witness, they couldn't conclusively prove what kind of risk, if any, such a device posed to
the general public while in my possession.
The judge liked me, I quoted several passages from Weingart by heart at her command and I caught the Bomb Squad asshole lying on the stand. The
charges were dropped.
Their haste set me free. Good thing too! I was facing up to 20 years on each of
3 counts!
Assholes.
[Edited on 31-7-2006 by Misanthropy] |
|
|
|
mericad193724
Hazard to Others
Posts: 121
Registered: 4-6-2006
Location: New Jersey, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: why do you care?
|
|
Wow...that incident is pretty bad! How much TATP is involved in that kind of disaster (blowing up an apartment building)??? They must have had loads
of it to do that kind of damage!
Mericad
|
|
|
saltykid
Harmless
Posts: 2
Registered: 16-8-2006
Location: Houston TX
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I just joined, hope you don't mind my jumping into the discussion... 
It looks like you found some of the news articles, I have links to a bunch of them on my home computer if you are interested in others.
Authorities in Texas City act like idiots when explosives are involved probably because the 1947 disaster still has them on edge...
Irresponsible kids with explosives piss me off. I've done my share of screwwing around with synthesis, but I do the research first. There's a reason
I haven't touched TATP (though curiousity is strong), and won't.
|
|
|
tito-o-mac
Hazard to Others
Posts: 117
Registered: 30-6-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
People SHOULD BE MORE RESPONSIBLE! Stupid laws still make inaccurate, extremely dangerous experiments easily available to citizens. Take for example,
the anarchist cookbook. Just plain shit! No chemical formulas, lousy graphics and no theory-based evidence.
I hope they bought insurance!
|
|
|
Sauron
International Hazard
Posts: 5351
Registered: 22-12-2006
Location: Barad-Dur, Mordor
Member Is Offline
Mood: metastable
|
|
Texas City, Texas was the site of the enormous 1947 detonation of an entire shipload of AN with great loss of life and destruction of preprty.
One of the worst manmade disasters in US history, so I am surprised no one mentioned the connection.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
