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Author: Subject: Idiots with chemicals
Mr. Wizard
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[*] posted on 12-7-2007 at 06:20


Sauron is right. Actually two ships blew up, the Grandcamp and the High Flyer, plus a load of AN on the docks. The hot metal debris dropping out of the sky then caught oil tanks on fire miles away. :(


http://www.local1259iaff.org/disaster.html
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Sauron
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[*] posted on 12-7-2007 at 07:01


Any estimate of what the tonnage of AN was?

It was a helluva lot.
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chromium
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[*] posted on 12-7-2007 at 09:24


Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
Any estimate of what the tonnage of AN was?

It was a helluva lot.


According to http://www.local1259iaff.org/disaster.html there was 2300 tons of AN on Grandcamp when small fire broke out. They did not want to use much water as this would have ruined part of cargo. Instead they closed doors and hatches hoping that shortage of oxygen will stop the fire.

[Edited on 12-7-2007 by chromium]

[Edited on 12-7-2007 by chromium]




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Sauron
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[*] posted on 12-7-2007 at 22:15


Shortage of oxygen? That was a clever strategem. I hope whoever thought that one up was vaporized as well.
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tito-o-mac
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[*] posted on 20-7-2007 at 06:18


The misuse of chemicals have reulted in a great loss of life since Alfred Noble created TNT. A matter of peace not war! Out of mankind's greed, their selfish minds turned their views away from humanity, something drastic will happen!
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YT2095
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[*] posted on 20-7-2007 at 07:16


Quote:
Originally posted by tito-o-mac
The misuse of chemicals have reulted in a great loss of life since Alfred Noble created TNT. A matter of peace not war! Out of mankind's greed, their selfish minds turned their views away from humanity, something drastic will happen!


same can apply to Physics though, if not More So.




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Waffles
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[*] posted on 21-7-2007 at 01:43


Quote:
Originally posted by tito-o-mac
The misuse of chemicals have reulted in a great loss of life since Alfred Noble created TNT. A matter of peace not war! Out of mankind's greed, their selfish minds turned their views away from humanity, something drastic will happen!


Who is this person? wtf




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quicksilver
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[*] posted on 21-7-2007 at 06:46


The "abuse" of anything has resulted in problematic issues. The loss of an individual's temper has resulted in the loss of life since before recorded history. It could be said with a degree of accuracy that stones and pieces of wood have cost more human lives than all the other "objects" collectively. However, the object is blameless. Singling out chemicals and / or Nobel had a minuscule amount of influence if one looks back through history.

Nobel, as most all know left his fortune for a "peace prize" to assuage his guilt as he recognized the POTENTIAL for harm that his invention was capable. That may not be the actions of a selfish man. Is your point that the use of chemicals has had a greater effect in terms of harm then other objects? If so, that is factually inaccurate.

Greed and selfishness are continual characteristics of all humanity. The degree to which they manifest themselves was by far greater in ancient history than during the last several centuries. A casual student of history easily recognizes that in terms of shear numbers, mankind has done greater injustice in ancient times than the present. Genocide is in no manner, modern. Nor is it any less final with spear and sword than with Zyclon B.

Hitler and Stalin were no greater murderers than those who rose to power in times past. To state that the invention of nitrated energetic materials had a greater bearing on man's inhumanity to man than the discovery of fire is also factually inaccurate. I realize that those were not your specific words, however that appears to be the thrust of the statement......


[Edited on 21-7-2007 by quicksilver]
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Sauron
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[*] posted on 22-7-2007 at 05:11


@tito-o-mac

The man's name was Nobel not Noble.

And he invented a way to stabilize nitroglycerin, called dynamite, not TNT. Dynamite was and is a commercial blasting agent used in mining, construction, quarrying, tunneling etc. It is rarely employed as a military explosive except in military engineering projects in a like manner to its civil utilization.

It was the Chinese who invented gunpowder by the way not the Europeans. I believe you are ethnically Chinese aren't you? So don't pick on Dr.Nobel. He was a great philanthropist who was appaled at the misuse of modern explosives for warfare.

Dr J.Wilbrand at the Univ. of Gottingen was the first to prepare TNT (2,4,6-TNT) in 1862-63. This little tidbit is right out of a book available free in the forum library.

Whether you know it or not, explosives as used in commerce and industry play an important and constructive role in modern civilization. So don't display your ignorance in this fashion. A little less posting, a lot more study is what you need to be doing.

[Edited on 22-7-2007 by Sauron]
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donlaszlow
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[*] posted on 4-8-2009 at 10:17


Most chemists are careful and made the world a better place. That never is on the news
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497
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[*] posted on 5-8-2009 at 13:57


Quote:
Most chemists are careful and made the world a better place. That never is on the news


Quote:
Great idea, but the average Jane and Joe fear everything they don't know:)


Quote:
Hysteria is comes from fear,because some people don't know enough.... but stupidity should not be a motive to take away freedom


Quote:
good one YT2095 :D


Etc..

Not to be mean, but have you EVER actually contributed anything to the forum other than bringing up multitudes of long dead threads with useless comments like the above?


[Edited on 6-8-2009 by 497]
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ketel-one
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[*] posted on 20-9-2009 at 22:23


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
Yes, this indeed is very bad, most of course to the family of the involved person(s), but also for all of us. In the city, where I live, a year ago or something like that, suddenly many k3wls liked to make so-called crofty bombs :mad: (I don't go into details here). One of the ingredients was NaOH. After a few incidents with these crofty bombs, many shops were hesitant to sell NaOH, especially to young male persons. There even was a short discussion about prohibiting the sale of NaOH, but fortunately that discussion died away quickly after the incidents with crofty bombs stopped. But you see how easily a certain very useful chemical can be taken from the shelves because of some stupid actions of stupid k3wls.


Are crofty bombs just NaOH + Al? Well that would be just stupid to ban NaOH. They might as well ban HCl. Hell they'd have to ban vinegar and baking soda as that will also explode if you place them together in a bottle.
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12AX7
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[*] posted on 21-9-2009 at 07:21


Quote: Originally posted by ketel-one  
Hell they'd have to ban vinegar and baking soda as that will also explode if you place them together in a bottle.


Well, no. You get bottled soda.

Tim




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woelen
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[*] posted on 21-9-2009 at 09:44


Tim, it does. I know from experience of 27 years ago, when I made a glass bomb from NaHCO3 and cleaning vinegar (appr. 10% CH3COOH). It exploded with a loud bang, glass splinters flying around all over the place. That was a stupid thing I did in those years and I hope you forgive me :D

One time, the bottle didn't set off immediately and that was most scary, because a cat was walking around and was heading towards the highly pressurized bottle. We had to scare away the cat, but we were too afraid to go near the bottle. Fortunately the cat quickly walked on and one minute later the bottle set off. Those were the stupid k3wl years, but fortunately we only did this kind of things with NaHCO3 and not with stuff like KClO3.

@Ketel-one: A crofty bomb indeed is just NaOH and Al-foil. It is much more dangerous than NaHCO3+vinegar, because the material sprayed around is very hot due to the exothermic reaction and highly corrosive.




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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 21-9-2009 at 21:57


With regards to Alfred Nobel, I'm not certain if it was an
individual pursuit for Alfred as well, but certainly dynamite
was not the first enterprise of the Nobel family who were munitions manufacturer and suppliers to the Austrian government engaged in the production of land mines.
Their mines used a pressure trigger which broke a glass ampule of concentrated sulfuric acid which then contacted a mixture of potassium chlorate and sugar (5:3) which instantly ignited and fired the mine. So the Nobel family was definitely associated with munitions manufacture at least at some point. IIRC the Nobel prize endowment was at least partially motivated by regret by the family
over having made a significant fortune manufacturing munitions and there was motivation of conscience to try to do something good for humanity since the family had participated in so much less altruistic business by virtue of munitions manufacture.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 22-9-2009 at 05:27


If Alfred Nobel hadn't existed the explosives industry would have progressed nonetheless but the Nobel Prizes certainly wouldn't exist. . .
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 22-9-2009 at 06:04


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
I know from experience of 27 years ago, when I made a glass bomb.... That was a stupid thing I did in those years and I hope you forgive me :D
Woelen is a reformed k3wl! I'll be darned!:o
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 22-9-2009 at 11:20


Entropy51 thinks you're reformed, woelen---tell him it isn't so!
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 22-9-2009 at 11:57


Well, I have remarked on his propensity to make small explosions.

I guess that should have been a dead giveaway.
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