ganger631
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Glove protection
I was wondering what kind of gloves do you guys wear when working with acids and bases. I personally wear mapa nerophene gloves.
[Edited on 6-7-2015 by ganger631]
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subsecret
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My hands have survived bromine, nitric acid, hydrochloric acid, concentrated sodium hypochlorite, etc without issues. Gloves make my hands sweat at an
insane rate, so I don't use them. I do use them, however, with poisons like lead salts and strong carcinogens.
Fear is what you get when caution wasn't enough.
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violet sin
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subsecret, it would be a touch irresponsible to tell new members one can function without issue, while not using gloves, unless working with
cumulative toxins/carcinogens. it was obvious to me, that was your personal preference for a specific reason. but others could take it as a
suggestion. really hate to have some one's family come a head hunting here after an accident.
personally, I use gloves when working on about any project. pets, family, safety = always. same goes with eye protection. simply relying on ones
capability to NOT spill, has worked poorly for me in the past. I use nitrile disposable gloves most often, cheap by the 100ct box also. though I have
neoprene gloves, hardware store chemical resistant/fuel resistant long gloves and of course leather. I have never worked with anything that was too
tough on them, unless it was physical abrasion/sharp edges.
I would suggest anyone use gloves when at all possible, unless you are entirely certain that no harm can come of it. glassware can easily have traces
of all your previous projects on the exterior. so maybe set aside certain glassware specifically for heavy metal, toxins, carcinogens etc. only.
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greenlight
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I also use disposable nitrile gloves when doing any work, they are real good to have around. I'm always quite careful so I don't know how they react
being exposed to large spills of strong concentrated acids (eg; beaker overflow, knocking over beaker).
The long non-disposable chemical resistant gloves are good to have too as violet sin said
[Edited on 6-7-2015 by greenlight]
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Praxichys
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In some cases, gloves can be unsafe. It's harder to feel the temperature of a flask through a glove, and it might be critical to preventing a runaway
reaction, or determining if something is cool enough to pick up. If you do manage to touch something very hot, the glove melts, stinks, sticks to your
hand, and causes burns worse than if no gloves were worn. Wet gloves slip on glassware more easily than fingers (especially when oily), and you can't
always feel when the gloves or glass are wet.
If you get liquid on your hand, you feel it immediately and can wash it off. Gloves offer a great way to not realize what you have been in contact
with. That is, until it has eaten though the glove, or worse, diffused through and exposed your sweaty hand to some reagent where it will soak for the
next hour. They all have some degree of permeability - not to mention little pinholes than invariably form in less stretchy nitrile gloves when using
threaded containers, lab stands, etc, or the realization that the drop of concentrated sulfuric acid you had on those gloves just got onto your lab
notebook/pen/pants/labcoat because you couldn't feel it there.
Sometimes they can be dangerous. RFNA makes nitrile gloves burst into flames on contact. Bromine readily brominates the unsaturated nitrile chain and
causes a reaction that makes the glove very hot. Gloves can provide a false sense of security and make one less careful about what the hands come into
contact with.
Anyway, I usually skip the gloves, and do my best not to get anything on myself. If I do, I wash it off and/or neutralize as appropriate. It makes me
meticulous and careful in my labwork, and it is very rare for me to get anything on my hands at all. I do wear them when I might be exposed to heavy
metals, skin-absorbed toxins, or things that stain (picric acid, silver nitrate, HgCl2, etc.) but if I'm running an esterification, for example,
(carboxylic acid, alcohol, concnetrated sulfuric acid) gloves are far from necessary. As usual, there is no black-and-white answer; it is application
dependent.
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Metacelsus
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Once, I had bromine go through a nitrile glove and onto my skin, causing a painful, but not very serious, burn. I'm pretty sure that it would have
been worse with no glove, though. It seemed like most of the bromine didn't make it to my hand.
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annaandherdad
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I can wear gloves all the time more easily than goggles. Within two minutes of putting on goggles they are fogged over and I can't see anything.
Any other SF Bay chemists?
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Praxichys
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Quote: Originally posted by annaandherdad  | | I can wear gloves all the time more easily than goggles. Within two minutes of putting on goggles they are fogged over and I can't see anything.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-fog
Try rubbing a very thin film of dish soap inside the lenses. A surfactant is used to spread the droplets of fog into a clear film.
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nezza
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I'm in the no glove school. Handling wet glassware while wearing gloves is asking for trouble. I use extra care and when handling concentrated acids
or bases make sure there is a bucket of water available to drench any spills immediately. I do wear goggles though to protect my eyes.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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violet sin
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In my personal experience, heat is detectable through the gloves prior to receiving a burn. they will loosen a bit and shrink back after cooling.
calloused hands = second line of protection. also the slipping has not been an issue for me while wet. I actually rinse my hands fairly often while
working and wearing the gloves.
my work space is in a basement, so I use chems that are relatively safe, considering all I care about is above me. strong bases and acids are used
minimally. since the time I spilled H2SO4 all down me one time, I learned it can be exceedingly hard to open doors with acid
lubricating the door knob. almost had to break it open. but recently I did use concentrated H2SO4, HCl, NaOH, KOH,
H2C2O4(oxalic) and FeCl3, without incident. full face shield and nitrile gloves the whole time. (making
ZnSO4, Na2Al2O4, K3[Fe(C2O4)3]ยท3H2O )
contamination on doorknobs in the house is a real concern, as every thing left there will get transmitted through the house. gloves, glove and more
gloves. the same reason I don't use things that are highly corrosive and form vapors like bromine, HNO3 etc. HCl is hard enough on tools
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aga
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There are pros and cons to using gloves all the time.
Eye protection is a much bigger issue, and thanks to Praxichys for the film-of-detergent tip (i need glasses for close up stuff these days).
The downside for glove use is that it is only human to come to regard them as a Force Field, protecting your hands from anything.
This is clearly not the case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Wetterhahn
At least with bare hands you have 100% undulled physical senses at your disposal, whereas a gloved hand is nowhere near as sensitive.
Personally i use latex gloves for most chemistry stuff, mainly because they are very cheap here, and it puts me into 'You Are Now Doing Some
Chemistry' mode.
The BatMan and SpiderMan outfits also help, but not as much.
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Sulaiman
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I'm still quite new so this is just what I do, not a recommendation;
I wear cheap latex gloves for potentially messy / staining work
or making up solutions (some of my volumetric flasks do not have stoppers)
I use gardening gloves over the latex gloves for hot beakers etc.
I have one pair of butyl rubber gloves reserved for hot concentrated acids etc. (GBP10/pair!)
I use bare hands for non-toxic/corrosive/staining work, small test tube experiments etc.
I wear latex gloves more than necessary because it reminds me I'm in 'chemistry' mode.
I have almost no toxic/heavy metal chemicals as I do not want the disposal problems.
For eye protection I mainly rely on my spectacles but ocasionally I also wear goggles.
I've not had a serious accident yet, so I can't judge how effective (or not) my precautions are.
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numos
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| Quote: Originally posted by violet sin |
I would suggest anyone use gloves when at all possible, unless you are entirely certain that no harm can come of it. glassware can easily have traces
of all your previous projects on the exterior. so maybe set aside certain glassware specifically for heavy metal, toxins, carcinogens etc. only.
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I couldn't agree more. Gloves are cheap, easy to put on and they get you in the habit of safety. When I first started home chemistry I didn't want to
"waste" money on gloves when there was glassware to be had, so I rarely used gloves. However there was a day where out of habit I didn't put on gloves
and was halfway through a nickel salt experiment. Only after some spilled on the floor did I snap to reality. It's just easier to always wear them and
not worry, as opposed to hoping your body will filter the mess you should have filtered for it.
At the VERY least have gloves on hand in case there is a spill of nasties, so you don't stand there twiddling your thumbs as nickel seeps through your
floorboards.
Also chemicals which react negatively to gloves are pretty well known, and chemistry is a game of rock paper scissors, every chemical will have a
glove suitable for it. And unless your gloves are the kind that cover the whole body, temperature can be determined using the opposite side of the
forearm. Slipping glassware can be a problem, but most gloves have a textured surface which helps, but one still needs to be mindful as losing
glassware is almost as bad as toxic exposure... almost. As for sweating - millions of doctors, surgeons, chemists, and even butchers deal with this
problem every day... welcome to the club.
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violet sin
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aga: I totally agree here "The downside for glove use is that it is only human to come to regard them as a Force Field, protecting your hands from
anything."
https://www.raycosafety.com/customer/rasain/images/bestperm....
it is definitely a good idea to check what may happen while working with specific things( always good to prepare for a reaction)... one could easily
anticipate that the glove would hold up as it has to anything previously, when in fact it isn't safe. possibly leading to a poor performance,
personal injury or just plain burning hands( on fire, with strong oxidizers and nitrile)
the only way for some one to be safe all the time, is to have a complete complement of gloves, know their protections abilities and make good
judgement calls as to when it would be better to work without them because of a specific issue. like if you doubted your ability to delicate work
with something you SHOULD NOT DROP. spilling a little sulfuric acid on ones hand and then washing would be a lot lest problematic than dropping a
whole jug on your lab space and incompatible material.
the best safety gear is the 'ole brain meats functioning properly  hands down.
I can get a 100ct/50pr box of ~4mill nitrile for just over 4$. that's a lot of chemical safety. good enough in fact, I will put on a pair for just
a few min of work and toss immediately. mixing algecide concentrate for the pool, insecticide use, re-arranging my chem cupboard, cleaning products
like TSP or CLR( hard water scale remover). also I hate the smell of vinegar or bleach on my hands, it sticks around a while.
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aga
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I suppose it all comes down to Knowing What You're Doing, as in what your reagents are, what the products may be, and what the physiological effects
of each compound may be.
If in doubt, glove up, and wear a cape and a condom as well (optionally as a Hat).
Starting a reaction that could have serious health effects (disability, death) without knowing that it could at least Happen is inexcusable given the
freely available info online 24/7 these days.
Basically do the research before the experiment and decide on your Personal protective Equipment (PPE) on the basis of what you found out.
I think they call that a Risk Assessment.
Today i stuffed some sodium acetate into a recycled jam jar using no PPE at all.
A few weeks back i chlorinated sulphur to S2Cl2, so had the door open for easy escape, a gas mask on my head (i.e. on standby)
and ensured that the wind direction would take any gasses from the fume hood outlet away from my house or shed.
Wore latex gloves as well.
I'll double-glove latex/nitrile next time as S2Cl2 gets very hot as it slowly mangles rubber.
The Key thing, no matter what you're doing (chemistry or otherwise) is to put a bit of thought into it before doing it, and take the appropriate
precautions.
If you're going to go Wild and Crazy, at least protect your eyes so you can see the full extent of the damage you did to yourself.
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aga
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I had a New scary thing happen a few days back.
Distilling some Glacial Acetic Acid out of 96% H2SO4 and sodium acetate.
When GAA was coming over, there was a worrying glass-type *clink* noise and then a few seconds later i noticed that the long glass thermometer had
disappeared.
Looking around for the top half (assuming it had snapped for some reason) it was nowhere to be seen.
Eventually (almost a minute) i realised that it had not snapped, it had dropped it's entire length into a 500ml RBF of Very Hot Concentrated Sulphuric
Acid !!!
The *clink* was it hitting the bottom of the RBF, which fortunately did not break, and neither did the thermometer (all Chinese BTW).
That stillhead has a plastic screw top with a rubber o-ring inside to clamp the thermometer.
I wrap an elastic band around the thermometer now or use a metal crocodile clip, depending on temperature, to prevent that happening again.
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SimpleChemist-238
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I had a close call some years back when I was distilling hydrobromic acid from sulfuric acid and sodium bromide. I had a 500ml flask with a long neck
and a condenser attached. For a receiving vessel there was a 250ml beaker. As I watched the reaction and the slightly reddish solution began to boil I
noticed a crack slowly growing with clink sound I was paralyzed in that moment by the thought of 400ml of hot bromine, hydrogen bromine and sulfuric
acid washing down my desk flow and me melting little holes through me like earthworms. I turned off heating and using a mitt brought the flask over to
a near by sink and dumped it out. I had to order a new flask that day
We are chemists , we bring light to the darkness. Knowledge to ignorant, excitement to the depressed and unknowing. we bring crops to broken fields
and water to the desert. Where there is fear we bring curiosity.
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Sulaiman
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Just a quick note on disposable gloves;
they are not perfect!
there is an AQL rating, e.g. http://www.ansellhealthcare.com/america/latamer/quality/page...
surprising how many defects are acceptable !?
I use AQL 1.5 as better = much more expensive.
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aga
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As regards failing glassware, i made my fumehood with a glass tray as the 'floor'.
The sides are only about 1" high.
This will not save my life, yet seemed a simple and sentient thing to do.
In the event of the glassware shattering, the glass tray should contain the spill long enough for me to run away (or clean it up, which would be the
better plan).
This has never happened (yet) however it is good to build in at least some safety if you do chemistry.
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BromicAcid
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | | The downside for glove use is that it is only human to come to regard them as a Force Field, protecting your hands from anything.
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I was firmly in the no-glove for most chemistry for years. Even beginning as a professional chemist and this was one of the tired old excuses I used
to use. The same sort of excuse people use for wearing seat belts or tying off to a roof before working on it. It boils down to that 'will never
happen to me' mentality. Unfortunately the worst things do happen. Granted, I do wear some gloves, specifically cut resistant gloves, when I am
attempting something reckless. But over months or years of doing chemistry you get things on your hands, your glassware, your bench tops, and then
your hands go in your mouth, eyes, they mingle with your household and those in it.
Unless you are really doing the mundane, you should probably be wearing gloves. If you ever think in your mind "It would be pretty bad if..."
specifically with regards to not wearing gloves, stop what you are doing and put them on. As chemists we are exposed for years to substances and
gloves are a necessary barrier or protection. I remember when I first started getting into chemistry and learned that a number of the carcinogens
were realized as such because they caused their damage to people that had been working with them unprotected for years. That made me much too casual
with chemicals I used, it could very well make me into one of those statistics years down the road.
There is no perfect glove, something like a SilverShield may block about anything but they grip for crap. Thick neoprene gloves are great for a
number of things but if you get DAST on them they heat up like crazy and threaten to ignite, and don't even bother wearing nitrile gloves while trying
to clean your glassware with acetone. You wear the glove to fit the situation, if not it is not the fault of the glove but the poor selection of PPE
(personal protective equipment) on your part. When you use a chemical you assume the risk and it would be poor planning to not do whatever you can to
protect yourself and your future self from damage.
Again, I have the scars, I know the joy of picking white dead skin from my finger tips where I contacted droplets of concentrated
H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> or the strange unsettling feeling of tearing yellowed chunks of skin from my hands with my teeth
where nitric acid did its damage. But I also remember laying on the bathroom floor afraid I might die from chlorine inhalation and almost unable to
breath. I remember having thermite go off right next to my hand and despite wearing a glove, losing all the skin on that hand in the process. And
now years down the road I can only think how stupid I was for being so damn caviler when, as they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of
cure. Or in metric speak 28.34 grams of prevention is worth 0.454 kilograms of cure.
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Magpie
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Gloves were unheard of when I was first doing chemistry at school in the '60s. Then in lab courses in the '00s I began to see some students using the
blue nitrile gloves routinely. They were available to all but I didn't use them.
In my own lab I only picked up the habit in recent years of wearing the blue nitrile gloves to prevent routine contamination. Putting on the gloves
is a sign that I recognize that there are hazards ahead. I've always had a pair of the green heavy duty nitrile gloves for handling the really nasty
stuff like bromine. In one case I'm sure they saved me from a nasty chemical burn.
For hot caustic work I wear leather gloves.
Sometimes I wear goggles but usually just pull down my hood window instead.
As others have stated, what I wear is based on the situation at hand, or as they say "the context."
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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szuko03
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I like wearing gloves and googles, this way when I am done I can see my girlfriend and hug her. One of the few times we appear a normal couple, I
would hate to lose that ability. I am not trying to be mean and i understand people have reasons but when it comes to safety anything other then "i
wear it" is kind of an excuse more then a reason.
Not trying to offend but you get one chance to have the stuff on when the accident that it was meant to protect you against actually does occur. You
can either be fully protected or wish you were and i think a small inconvenience is better then a life of regret.
Chemistry is a natural drive, not an interest.
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