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Author: Subject: what are the products of this reaction c2h2+h2so4+kno3.
idrbur
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[*] posted on 10-7-2015 at 09:37
what are the products of this reaction c2h2+h2so4+kno3.


Today i bubbled c2h2 from a solution of h2so4 and kno3 that means hno3. Acid was 30% conc. So i want to know that is there any reaction taking place . And if there is a reaction what are its products.
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Bot0nist
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[*] posted on 10-7-2015 at 18:50


I know it seems like I'm busting your balls of late, idrbur, but this is a science forum, and overwhelmingly a chemistry one. With that in mind, I am sure if you would adhere to a few basic guidelines, your posts will garner more useful replies, be taken more seriously by the most gifted members here, and will help you get more from sciencemadness overall.

Elemental symbols (the first letter of) is a capital. For example, hydrogen is "H" not "h," and even though many members don't bother, using subscript is nice to see, and can be done by typing the tags out, or by simply using the sub button. For example, sulfuric acid would be H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> , potassium nitrate as KNO<sub>3</sub> , nitric acid as... well, you see the point.

When beginning a new topic, especially not one in the beginnings section, or even better, a short questions thread, it is expected that you site any sources you may have used, and or at least show what sort of research you may have already done yourself, what experiments you may have tried, etc. Anything less can be perceived lazy or as spoonfeeding requests. This is especially frowned upon on subjects involving dangerous materials like explosives, or overly hazardous compounds or procedures.

Put some more time and detail into your queries. Elaborate. Simple one liner questions are generally not the best topic starting posts.

I realize this post does not directly help your OP, but I do hope it will help your time here be more useful to you. I apologize if it or other posts of mine came across as terse, that was not my attention. Just trying to help.
Good luck idrbur, and (a belated) welcome to Sciencemadness.

[Edited on 11-7-2015 by Bot0nist]

[Edited on 11-7-2015 by Bot0nist]




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[*] posted on 11-7-2015 at 12:07


Actually, using capital letters is more impressive, but what gets me interested/excited is the actual chemistry. Now if you hoping for an energetic compound, I suspect you may not have one.

One source (see http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.28584661.html ) cites the following compound:

"Acetylene - nitric acid (1:1)
Molecular Formula C2H3NO3"

I suspect a possible alternate depiction follows the name, an additive: C2H2.HNO3. However, the following passage from Atomistry.com on the properties of acetylene (see http://carbon.atomistry.com/chemical_properties_acetylene.ht... ), to quote:

"Acetylene combines with chlorine, sometimes with explosive violence, forming acetylene dichloride or dichlorethylene, CHCl:CHCl, and acetylene tetrachloride or tetrachlorethane, CHCl2-CHCl2. According to Mouneyrat a mixture of chlorine and acetylene, when exposed to diffused daylight, forms acetylene tetrachloride without explosion, but the presence of oxygen or of a gas capable of liberating oxygen causes an explosion. Acetylene forms with SbCl5 the crystalline compound C2H2.SbCl5, which on heating decomposes into C2H2Cl2 and SbCl3. Chavanne states that acetylene dichloride consists of two isomerides separable by fractional distillation, and boiling at 49° C. and 60.2° C.
With bromine acetylene forms C2H2Br2 and C2H2Br4; with iodine C2H2I2, known in two stereoisomeric forms. Acetylene slowly absorbs halogen hydracid, HX, producing CH2:CHX and CH3-CHX2; and when sparked with nitrogen forms HCN. "

suggests something other than an additive compound may actual form. However, you actually added C2H2 to a mixture of KNO3 + H2SO4:

2 KNO3 + H2SO4 = K2SO4 + 2 HNO3

which could be viewed as a reaction in equilbrium. Further, to quote more from Atomistry on C2H2:

"Concentrated sulphuric acid slowly absorbs acetylene, forming the sulphonic acid C2H3-SO3H, which by hydrolysis yields acetaldehyde, and also its condensation product crotonaldehyde:

2CH≡CH → 2C2H3.SO3H → 2CH3.CHO → CH3.CH=CH.CHO + H2O"

which means to me it is also possible that the equilbrium reaction in the presence of C2H2 could slowly shifted to the left with the consumption of the H2SO4 resulting finally in crotonaldebyde (this assumes a slower reaction with the HNO3).

Hence the actual need for an experiment and report on what is observed, and any evident properties, like smell (capital letters optional).

[Edited on 11-7-2015 by AJKOER]
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idrbur
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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 03:31


Thanks for the reply AJKOER

[Edited on 12-7-2015 by idrbur]
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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 03:47


You really do need to learn to post your questions adhering to the forum rules on posting. That includes the use of proper nomenclature. I've looked at your post history and I detect a certain resistance on your part to this. If you will just capitalize where you are supposed to and then hit "Preview Post" that gives you quit a few more tools to make your posts more professional.
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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 04:47


How about a week off from posting next time? It's not too hard to read the FAQ and use the caps correctly.



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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 09:45


The reaction of acetylene and nitrogen would be a neat way to get HCN.



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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 13:40


Dear idrbur,

Whether you like or not, you're dealing with People here on SM.

There are a few Rules to follow to get the Most out of people.

You can ignore the Rules, but you will get a lot less interesting stuff.

1st is to at least say Please. Its just 6 letters.Easy to type.

If you get any response, type another 6 letters : Thanks

It isn't difficult, and you will get a lot more from people if you do it that way.

It's a Pain yet they allow non-autistic people here (3.76305% i think) and they like that sort of thing.

I am a newcomer to chemistry myself, and even at my low level,
"c2h2 from a solution of h2so4 and kno3 that means hno3"
is annoying

"C2H2 from a solution of H2SO4 and KNO3 that means HNO3"

works a lot better if you want answers to chemistry questions.

.




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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 13:49


Can't say we didn't try, aga.

"No bounce, No play."




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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 13:55


That's a good way to put it.

A USA saying ?




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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 13:57


From Stephen King's novel, Dreamcatcher. Always liked that one. And "SS,DD", of course. (Same shit, Different day)



[Edited on 12-7-2015 by Bot0nist]




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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 14:06


Same Day different Shit has been catching me out a lot.

I need to re-align my determinant dimension.




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idrbur
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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 16:32


Thsnks everybody.
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[*] posted on 12-7-2015 at 16:36


Your welcome, idrbur. We look forward to seeing any results of your tests and collaborating in the future. Good luck, and stay safe.



U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!


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[*] posted on 13-7-2015 at 02:38


The colour of the solution has turned a little more pale yellow than the soluion of K2SO4 andHNO3 . Now i am just waiting for the formation of any crystal and if the crystal will not form i will evaporate the water from the solution.
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[*] posted on 13-7-2015 at 03:19


That is always a problem for me - how much water needs to be boiled off before crystals form.





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[*] posted on 13-7-2015 at 06:52


Same problem with me . I have no idea about it.
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[*] posted on 13-7-2015 at 08:42


I would not recommend boiling C2H2:HNO3, as generally as C2H2 gas + oxidizer (as vapors or gas) + heat can result in an explosion.

For example, a reported explosion on heating Perchloric acid, HClO4, with a C2H2/N2O flame.

Quote: Originally posted by subsecret  
The reaction of acetylene and nitrogen would be a neat way to get HCN.


Similarly, this is a risky path since if the pure N2 component is prepared by an incomplete removal of O2 from air, then sparking the mixture with C2H2 could result in an explosion, which could even expell any formed HCN as well. Apparently, the lower and upper explosive limits for C2H2 have a large range in air, from 2.5% to 81% (or, higher, 100% if sufficiently pressurized, see https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=lower+explosive+limit+f... ) allowing possible detonation.

[Edit] Acetylene is a poor choice for demonstration purposes (like for high school chemistry teachers) as upon ignition with air, a glass containment vessels can apparently shatter. The lower explosion limit mixed with oxygen and no nitrogen is reportedly even under 2.5%, as revealed when C2H2 was collected over water previously used to collect oxygen, eventually resulting in an explosion. The reaction between C2H2 and Cl2 is apparently explosive in the presence of even a small amount of oxygen. There is also an interesting propagation property where an entire 7 miles of pipeline transporting C2H2 was destroyed as a result of a single hot that developed on a small part of the exterior surface. Acetylene generated from CaC2 can produce an odor signaling possible highly toxic formation of AsH3 and PH3 gases from associated arsenic and phosphorous impurities in the calcium carbide.

[Edited on 14-7-2015 by AJKOER]
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[*] posted on 13-7-2015 at 17:13


You have a low number of posts, and you are making an enquiry, about a potentially very dangerous reaction.

This ain't just a little dope. You are in the arena of high explosives.

So, yeah. I know, what happens, and I decline to answer.
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[*] posted on 13-7-2015 at 17:44


Would that really happen in such dilute concentrations Zed?
Not saying you're wrong, but most nitrations don't work under such conditions.




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[*] posted on 14-7-2015 at 12:37


I just don't like the direction it heads in. Also has a post, about producing Acetone Peroxide.

I can understand guys who might like to indulge in a little recreational dope chemistry. I've got no sympathy for novices who seem to be interested in WMD.

I recall a spate of questions from folks who claimed they were in desperate need of phenol. Seemed innocent enough at the time. Well, it might not have been. A short while later, an alleged terrorist type was arrested after acquiring a fair amount of phenol. Seems it is easily nitrated into something very dangerous.
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[*] posted on 14-7-2015 at 12:43


This an ever present danger - helping someone who wants the info so they can (try to) kill you.

Shutting down all internet comms would kill ISIS stone dead overnight.

... but then SM would be inaccessible as well : such a dilemma.




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[*] posted on 14-7-2015 at 13:20


As I age, I become more skeptical.

I recall the interview of an ex-spook. Wherein he said, "When I see flowers, I start looking for the body". I'm not at that stage yet, but I'm still young-ish.

I don't want to be a censor, but I do sometimes try to gauge, the potential damage my helpfulness might yield.

In this case, I'm not gonna be helpful.
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