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Author: Subject: Theoretical Synthesis of Phosgene
aga
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[*] posted on 17-10-2015 at 13:42


Detritus is where it should be already.

IF you had an actual Goal, such as make chemical compound X which absolutely required phosgene as a reagent, then this thread would be of some value.

As it is, you appear to want to make a War Gas to kill as many people as possible.

It's not paranoia, just brains still working.




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Little_Ghost_again
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[*] posted on 17-10-2015 at 17:06


No the reason I dont want it linked is because the other thread has nothing to do with making phosgene.

I am really sorry but you stated at the start you had a reason to make it and gave the reason as making something or other, then a little later you admitted you had no real reason to make it. That makes some pretty jumpy about your intentions, I doubt your a terrorist but all the same you have not be entirely open and honest and want to produce something alot of rational people would not like being made next door to them.

I dont know why this is being allowed seeing as there are so many inconsistent statements you have made, but that is not my call nor any of my business.
But I do find it slightly odd that cooks and kewl get a hard time but you have been allowed to carry on while clearly not being honest about the intent.

Point 1 this started as a theory exercise then became an intent

point 2 you said you wanted to make X or Y, then a few posts on you said you didnt have anything in mind and would keep it untill you had a use for it

point 3 while you live near a remote location, you also intimated that you actually live near people, so if you did make it and tried to store it what would happen if it went wrong and you broke the container or whatever?

Ok I am a noob with absolutely no clout on here, but I am honestly greatful I dont live near you, you come across as if you dont believe how dangerous this stuff is. that alone worries me, if you had some fear and respect for it then I might not have this really bad feeling in my gut.

I am sorry, none of this is personal but you judt dont sound like someone who should be within a 1000 miles of this stuff or anything more dangerous than lego




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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 04:36


Quote: Originally posted by Agari  
Is mineral oil of the type used to store solid alkali metals such as sodium,potassium,and lithium suitable for storage of triphosgene crystals?


No. Usual clean and dry plastic bottle (polypropylene one) is good enought. Compound is stable without destruction catalysts (like Fe or charcoal). But you should cover bottle very carefully to reduce probability of leakage. Glass flask is also possible, but plastic is better because of safety reasons. Triphosgene mp is about 80 C, so it is much safer to take a sample just by knoking a bottle with hammer, than melting it up.
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Agari
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 08:38


Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Detritus is where it should be already.

IF you had an actual Goal, such as make chemical compound X which absolutely required phosgene as a reagent, then this thread would be of some value.

As it is, you appear to want to make a War Gas to kill as many people as possible.

It's not paranoia, just brains still working.


I actually do need phosgene for a compound: carbonyldiimidazole. You either have not read the thread,are trolling, or have not paid attention.
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Agari
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 08:39


Alright,I will bring up one of my other questions:
What contamination could I expect if I bubble the chlorine through a tube containing sulfuric acid before initiating the synthesis?
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Little_Ghost_again
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 09:40


Quote: Originally posted by Agari  
Alright,I will bring up one of my other questions:
What contamination could I expect if I bubble the chlorine through a tube containing sulfuric acid before initiating the synthesis?


Dry chlorine




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Agari
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 10:56


Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
Quote: Originally posted by Agari  
Alright,I will bring up one of my other questions:
What contamination could I expect if I bubble the chlorine through a tube containing sulfuric acid before initiating the synthesis?


Dry chlorine

This is the last time I am replying to one of your posts,I am pretty sure other contamination could result. In one of my other threads under general chemistry titled "Red Material?", I was talking about how I botched the synthesis of SiCl4 and ended up with red material in my product. It turns out that the red substance was sulfur dichloride.
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Little_Ghost_again
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 11:13


Quote: Originally posted by Agari  
Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
Quote: Originally posted by Agari  
Alright,I will bring up one of my other questions:
What contamination could I expect if I bubble the chlorine through a tube containing sulfuric acid before initiating the synthesis?


Dry chlorine

This is the last time I am replying to one of your posts,I am pretty sure other contamination could result. In one of my other threads under general chemistry titled "Red Material?", I was talking about how I botched the synthesis of SiCl4 and ended up with red material in my product. It turns out that the red substance was sulfur dichloride.


What is your problem?? I gave you an accurate answer the best I could to your question!

What the hell do you think will come through sulphuric acid if you bubble chlorine through it?? It will be dry as the sulphuric will remove the water, so to answer what YOU asked.... if you bubble chlorine though sulphuric acid the other end will give you dry chlorine, I have DONE IT TODAY! I didnt get toads or frogs I got chlorine very dry.

Have a think and see if perhaps YOU might have fucked up the question rather than me fucking up the answer




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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 13:28


I certainly have no intention of producing phosgene unless it will make me millions of dollars or lead to a cure for cancer, but hypothetically, if one were to produce phosgene, wouldn't a military surplus gas mask make an ideal respirator?
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 14:11


The mods are not interested, so how about Collective Action ?

If nobody posts any more replies, then this thread will die, as it should have, much much earlier.

Helping anyone to make phosgene is simply stupid.

All Stop. Please.

[Edited on 18-10-2015 by aga]




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Agari
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 16:17


The shipment of reagents has arrived,synthesis will be done tomorrow.
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 16:48


Quote: Originally posted by Agari  
The shipment of reagents has arrived,synthesis will be done tomorrow.

This is the worst news I have heard so far today.
Maybe you have the skills to pull it off but everything you have posted so far causes one to doubt. Critically, you seem to be unaware of the extreme toxicity of this stuff. I am also uncertain that there is any real need to justify this synthesis. You have cited a couple of syntheses for which you need phosgene. Urea for goodness sake! Ok, carbonyldiimidazole also. But again you have not demonstrated any real need that justifies making this via this route.

Several additional things concern me.
The fact that you wish to synthesise a gas that is deadly at such low concentrations and is harmful below its odour threshold is worrying.
The fact that you seem hell-bent on doing this against the advice of everyone who has participated in this thread.
The nature of the questions you have asked suggests that although you might know the reaction itself and the reaction mechanism, you do not appear to have a firm grasp on the details of the experiment setup that are essential to doing it safely. A serious safe attempt would cite others who have done this synthesis, post details of their equipment and invite critique and advice on how to best adapt the procedure for your specific situation.
You mention no contingency plans if something should go wrong. What is your escape plan? What is your containment plan? What is your communication plan? What is your disposal plan? You say that you are doing this away from other people. (How far away, you do not specify. I hope it is far enough.) What do you intend to do with the dead mammals that could potentially occur?

This whole thing smacks of arrogance and irresponsibility. If it was a comparable synthesis of drug-related or energetic compounds the police would be interested. The fact that you are attempting a chemical warfare agent seems to have escaped you. This is just foolhardy.


[edit]
Check in when done so we know you are alive.
Include photos of dead squirrels or pets and their distance from your lab.

[Edited on 19-10-2015 by j_sum1]
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 17:17


A quick refresher on phosgene.

Before the advent of nerve gas it was the number one lethal chemical warfare agent, killing 80% of all those who died of gas in WWI.

Unlike nerve gas, there are no symptoms of exposure (nerve gas at least cause miosis and dim vision that warns of exposure). Even hydrogen cyanide provides some measure of warning if not absorbed too quickly.

Unlike nerve gas or hydrogen cyanide, there is no treatment. Nerve gas can be treated at up to 20 times the lethal dose if intervention is swift - the medicines to treat are readily available. Hydrogen cyanide can likewise be treated with readily available medicines even at high exposures (but its speed of action makes this difficult).

Unlike hydrogen cyanide, phosgene is a cumulative poison that can gradually build up to lethal dose over the course of days through repeated exposure.

And of course it is a gas. It does not stay put.

This is just about the most insidious poison there is.
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[*] posted on 18-10-2015 at 17:49


Maybe Agari just craves the attention and doesn't intend to actually synthesize the gas. I fail to understand how someone who is able to come up with a synthetic route is unable to perform such basic planning of a safe setup. It is unbelievable to the point where I think that either his own life has no value to him or he is toying with us.

It is conceivable that he will stop responding to messages in the near future to fake his death, while in reality he will be reading our messages in which we speculate about what happened to him.

If not, I truly hope (for lack of faith in a supernatural being) that Agari is living in an extremely remote area and won't harm anybody but himself.

[Edited on 19-10-2015 by phlogiston]




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Agari
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[*] posted on 19-10-2015 at 09:18


Moving out in two hours, I will give a status update within the next 72 hours.

Edit:I feel as if I am going to go into cardiac arrest at any moment, I hope I don't F*** this up.

P.S.:The setup that I am going to use not is significantly different from my original proposed setup,I am going to synthesize triphosgene first and then hydrolyze it to phosgene during carbonyldiimidazole synthesis.
To whoever was concerned about my close proximity to others, I don't live in the remotest area possible, but I will drive to a more remote area.
[Edited on 19-10-2015 by Agari]

[Edited on 19-10-2015 by Agari]
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Agari
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[*] posted on 19-10-2015 at 09:39


Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
A quick refresher on phosgene.

Before the advent of nerve gas it was the number one lethal chemical warfare agent, killing 80% of all those who died of gas in WWI.

Unlike nerve gas, there are no symptoms of exposure (nerve gas at least cause miosis and dim vision that warns of exposure). Even hydrogen cyanide provides some measure of warning if not absorbed too quickly.

Unlike nerve gas or hydrogen cyanide, there is no treatment. Nerve gas can be treated at up to 20 times the lethal dose if intervention is swift - the medicines to treat are readily available. Hydrogen cyanide can likewise be treated with readily available medicines even at high exposures (but its speed of action makes this difficult).

Unlike hydrogen cyanide, phosgene is a cumulative poison that can gradually build up to lethal dose over the course of days through repeated exposure.

And of course it is a gas. It does not stay put.

This is just about the most insidious poison there is.

Nerve agents such as Soman and CycloSarin need to be treated within a VERY short amount of time as neurotransmission is blocked within a matter of minutes,so not ALL nerve agents can be effectively treated even in doses of 20 times the lethal dose.
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[*] posted on 19-10-2015 at 12:56


This charade has to End.

Clearly it's an attention-seeking thing, so if members could co-operate (unlikely) then the best course would be either to Not comment further, or comment soley on what the thread IS about rather than the non-existent content.

Funny. I spent 110 mins researching Actors and Web forums, and it apprears that using web forums using multiple personalities helps them hone their 'character acting' skills at no cost to them.

Smart thinking IMHO.

[Edited on 19-10-2015 by aga]




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[*] posted on 19-10-2015 at 14:18


Offtopic: Anyone want to buy some land in northern Michigan? I've got 50 acres, recently cleared of all life forms, available starting Wednesday.
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[*] posted on 20-10-2015 at 13:15


Sorry for taking so long to update.
I have finished the synthesis of C7H6N4O,which is now stored in an Erlenmeyer flask under a CO2 atmosphere. The apparatus that I used for the synthesis of phosgene was drastically different from my original proposed idea,though.
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[*] posted on 20-10-2015 at 13:19


I will try to schedule an appointment with a pulmonologist as soon as possible,I am not sure how much time I may have left to live,though I did not have enough phosgene leaking into my mask for me to smell it. COCl2 has a smell like freshly cut grass when present at low concentrations(Data from reading and not from personal experience,Aga), right?
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[*] posted on 20-10-2015 at 13:48


Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara  
Offtopic: Anyone want to buy some land in northern Michigan? I've got 50 acres, recently cleared of all life forms, available starting Wednesday.

How much ?

Does it have water and electricity and is there road access ?

Phosgene is a gas, so should have blown away by now.

Does it permeate the soil ?

Looking to put up a hydroponic greenhouse, so soil contamination is no problem, yet should reduce the Price quite a lot i think.

Maybe best to Rent before Buying in case some workers die.

Do you offer a rent-to-buy option ?




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[*] posted on 20-10-2015 at 14:12


Does any nasty equipment or stupid dead life forms remain on the plot? What happens if it becomes an EPA superfund site in the future?

Agari, please consider donating your chems, equipment and funds to SM in your remaining time.




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[*] posted on 20-10-2015 at 14:37


Hey ! I was here first !

I want the land, the Corpse and all materials in with the deal.

Hate it when these ambulance chasers turn up.




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Agari
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[*] posted on 20-10-2015 at 17:12


Funny aga,you are telling people to basically send this thread to Detritus,but it doesn't matter now.
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[*] posted on 21-10-2015 at 00:33


Quote: Originally posted by Agari  
Sorry for taking so long to update.
I have finished the synthesis of C7H6N4O,which is now stored in an Erlenmeyer flask under a CO2 atmosphere.


Great write up

And I have pixies sitting under a toadstool

[Edited on 21-10-2015 by Little_Ghost_again]




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