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Rhodanide
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Getting rid of Acetone Peroxide
Hi, everyone.
I have in the past made some Acetone peroxide and would now like to dispose of it due to my distrust of the chemical. I would prefer not to detonate
it all at once, or deflagrate it minute quantities at a time, (Not only does that take forever, but it's dangerous, of course!) I was looking for a
simple way to chemically destroy it. Before you ask, no it has not sublimed to the point of any large crystals. If that happened, then.. I don't know.
Anyhow, i was wondering if any of you folks on here knew of any easy ways to dispose of it chemically.
I appreciate your help. 
~T
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Detonationology
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How much are you talking about? I have got rid of some by saturated it in water and disposing like any other chemical.
“There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.” ― William James
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kecskesajt
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Add TATP in strong base like cc. NaOH solution. Be careful about the temperature.
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ecos
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if it is small amount you can put it in a narrow line and burn it. it will burn fast [action time]
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OneEyedPyro
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A fairly uneventful as well as safe method is to dissolve in acetone then dump it out on a large flat surface and burn.
As far as destroying it chemically I'm sure there are plenty of ways but why bother?
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Bert
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My choice for a SMALL quantity would be to dissolve in toluene, spread on a LARGE PIECE of cardboard in a safe place, ignite a dry area of the
cardboard and get back.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=36743&a...
----
Quote:
While TATP is insoluble in water, it is very soluble in both chlo- roform and toluene (see Table 1 for solubility measurements made at room
temperature for various common solvents; the results agree reasonably well with those reported (2)). In seeking a solvent that would enable TATP to be
handled with reduced risk of accidental initiation, toluene appeared to offer both high solubility and low volatility. By contrast, chloroform is very
volatile. Toluene was therefore selected for closer study. In order to ascertain the hazards posed by handling toluene solutions of TATP, trials were
per- formed in an attempt to detonate these solutions using a no. 8 det- onator (see Experimental). It was observed that saturated solutions of TATP
in toluene (~28 wt%) could not be initiated, and it is therefore concluded that TATP can be rendered relatively benign by dissolution in toluene. Such
solutions are chemically stable and may be stored in a closed vessel provided the cap/stopper is leak- proof; leakage would result in evaporation of
the toluene leaving a dangerous residue of TATP on the outer surface of the vessel. However, should such a residue be formed, it may be allowed to
sublime away in a well-ventilated area. It is recommended that a seal with an inert plastic disc insert be used in order to avoid solid TATP
crystallizing within the threads of a screw cap.
[Edited on 18-11-2015 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
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3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
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Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Aurium
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Sure beats draining it down the road's drainage.
Still waiting on that bang...
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Rhodanide
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rip TMNT.
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Rhodanide
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That doesn't sound like a very smart idea... I would have done that earlier IF AP was soluble in water, but it is quite the opposite. (I hope you
didn't pour it down the drain!)
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Rhodanide
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Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  | A fairly uneventful as well as safe method is to dissolve in acetone then dump it out on a large flat surface and burn.
As far as destroying it chemically I'm sure there are plenty of ways but why bother? |
Good point.
So, it's soluble in acetone?
Interesting. I'll give it a try. Thanks!
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Rhodanide
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert | My choice for a SMALL quantity would be to dissolve in toluene, spread on a LARGE PIECE of cardboard in a safe place, ignite a dry area of the
cardboard and get back.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=36743&a...
----
Quote:
While TATP is insoluble in water, it is very soluble in both chlo- roform and toluene (see Table 1 for solubility measurements made at room
temperature for various common solvents; the results agree reasonably well with those reported (2)). In seeking a solvent that would enable TATP to be
handled with reduced risk of accidental initiation, toluene appeared to offer both high solubility and low volatility. By contrast, chloroform is very
volatile. Toluene was therefore selected for closer study. In order to ascertain the hazards posed by handling toluene solutions of TATP, trials were
per- formed in an attempt to detonate these solutions using a no. 8 det- onator (see Experimental). It was observed that saturated solutions of TATP
in toluene (~28 wt%) could not be initiated, and it is therefore concluded that TATP can be rendered relatively benign by dissolution in toluene. Such
solutions are chemically stable and may be stored in a closed vessel provided the cap/stopper is leak- proof; leakage would result in evaporation of
the toluene leaving a dangerous residue of TATP on the outer surface of the vessel. However, should such a residue be formed, it may be allowed to
sublime away in a well-ventilated area. It is recommended that a seal with an inert plastic disc insert be used in order to avoid solid TATP
crystallizing within the threads of a screw cap.
[Edited on 18-11-2015 by Bert] |
I don't have any Toluene, I do have a bit of chloroform in a syringe, enough to dissolve it, but chloroform isn't flammable... is it?
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Rhodanide
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Perfect. I've got extra NaOH. :>
And you're positive this works?
Can I get rid of it by dumping it down the drain afterwards?
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kecskesajt
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Yes it works.However, I dumped TATP into dilute NaOH solution so it wasn't so fast. And it will generate a lot of oxygen(if not ozone) gas.
So do it outside. After that, put some vinegar or HCl into the NaOH until you get a pH about 8(mild alkaline).After that, you can dump it.
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OneEyedPyro
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It's not highly soluble in acetone by any means, it would take quite a bit to dissolve a large amount.
Toluene is probably a better choice.
[Edited on 19-11-2015 by OneEyedPyro]
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Rhodanide
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| Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro | It's not highly soluble in acetone by any means, it would take quite a bit to dissolve a large amount.
Toluene is probably a better choice.
[Edited on 19-11-2015 by OneEyedPyro] |
That's a shame, because I don't have any Toluene, nor can I buy it from anywhere i know of.
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Rhodanide
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| Quote: Originally posted by kecskesajt | Yes it works.However, I dumped TATP into dilute NaOH solution so it wasn't so fast. And it will generate a lot of oxygen(if not ozone) gas.
So do it outside. After that, put some vinegar or HCl into the NaOH until you get a pH about 8(mild alkaline).After that, you can dump it.
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Hm. Interesting. Thanks!
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OneEyedPyro
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Well, if you only have a few grams to get rid of it's not an issue but if it's a large amount it could be considered a waste of acetone.
Chemically destroying TATP seems well, potentially dangerous.
At least with the burning method there's no risk of detonation once the TATP has dissolved.
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Bert
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| Quote: |
That's a shame, because I don't have any Toluene, nor can I buy it from anywhere i know of. |
In USA, any paint store probably sells toluene, any big box building supply store such as Home Depot, Lowes, Menards has toluene in the paint
department as well.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Tsjerk
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Could anyone explain me why not to trow it done the drain with a lot of water? I don't see it drying in the pipes anywhere as there is always water
around, it is not a heavy metal and it will decompose by the time it gets to the waste plant.
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Rhodanide
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| Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro | Well, if you only have a few grams to get rid of it's not an issue but if it's a large amount it could be considered a waste of acetone.
Chemically destroying TATP seems well, potentially dangerous.
At least with the burning method there's no risk of detonation once the TATP has dissolved. |
It's 67.2 grams.
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Rhodanide
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert | | Quote: |
That's a shame, because I don't have any Toluene, nor can I buy it from anywhere i know of. |
In USA, any paint store probably sells toluene, any big box building supply store such as Home Depot, Lowes, Menards has toluene in the paint
department as well.
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Alright, I'll look there. I've got a Home Depot ~30 mins away, so I'll take a look. Thanks!
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KesterDraconis
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tetra | | Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro | Well, if you only have a few grams to get rid of it's not an issue but if it's a large amount it could be considered a waste of acetone.
Chemically destroying TATP seems well, potentially dangerous.
At least with the burning method there's no risk of detonation once the TATP has dissolved. |
It's 67.2 grams. |
May I ask why you created this massive an amount of TATP?
I understand you want to get rid of it now, but even as far as "large scale" can go, for TATP (or any primary), that is an enormous amount.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk | | Could anyone explain me why not to trow it done the drain with a lot of water? I don't see it drying in the pipes anywhere as there is always water
around, it is not a heavy metal and it will decompose by the time it gets to the waste plant. |
True,
As a peroxydic organic material, in the drains and WC exhaust pipes full of anaerobic bacteria, CTAP (CycloTriAcetonPeroxyde and not TCAP
tricycloacetonperoxyde)will not last long...the reducing power of those microorganisms.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Bert
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A couple of ounces of acetone peroxide.
I don't think I'd want it in my plumbing, even wet.
Any one else remember a story about some guy poling a boat on a rocky river bottom down stream of the waste water outlet at a late 19th century USA
nitroglycerin factory. Supposedly found a pool of nitro on the river bottom that settled out of the discharged wash waters- Need to find the reference
again.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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aga
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He was Poling, so i guess there might have been a bit of stone that got stuck into his wooden pole, and then he found a pocket of nitro, stuck the
pole in, pushed hard, connecting the stone with another stone ...
I thought the Wright Brothers were the first to Fly ?
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