RogueRose
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Industrial/Business/Corporate supply company - Providing specalty products (chems & apparatus) for customers - National Co-Op??
This is specifically directed to US readers but my idea can easily be expanded/transferred to other countries & inter-country cooperation would
have vast benefits!!!, so please read on regardless of where you are located.
I live in what is a very highly industrialized area of the US (not a major city, but the county & surrounding regions have some of the biggest
corporations in the US and even the world). The problem is that I and MANY/most people I speak to who operate small businesses (think family operated
with 0-5 employees) have had similar difficulties with obtaining many chemicals, equipment or apparatus in anything which is within a reasonable
driving distance so they are forced to jump through hoops for online retailers for various products (lye, potash, sulfuric or HCL, etc) often asking
questions which have not legal requirement to be asked but answers are required, and reviewed, for purchase.
Example is a 50lb bag of NaOH which is $89.99 + freight or $119 for 50lbs KOH + freight (and a minimum freight order is like 400 lbs of any items). I
haven't found ANY supplier locally for NaOH in amounts greater than 2 lb bottles and if purchased 25 of these 2 lb bottles, the cost is $300 for 50lbs
of NaOH!
Where I live is one of the largest and oldest farming counties (& surrounding counties) in the US. MANY self reliant people who make maybe ALL of
their products and almost all of what they sell at retail stores or farmers markets.
the problem is that many products are prohibitively expensive to produce due to no local quality (meaning nice inventory that isn't 300-600% markup)
chem suppliers and that don't require EIN's and other non- necessity "permits" to buy simple chems for home business use.
I have a feeling that there may be many other locations throughout the country where people are experiencing the same problems. (please feel free to
correct me if I am wrong, or PLEASE comment if you are a sufferer of this as well).
Now IDK if the reason for this situation is because the "paradigm" of business relationships has changed in the last 15 years with the invention of
the Internet, but IMO, there may be more disadvantages than advantages to what is the current MO of the supply companies.
Now I want to make it clear that I am not intending to sell "listed/restricted" chemicals, unless specifically requested and proper paperwork is
provided prior to ordering (or requesting permit/license for ordering). This is a legitimate venture which means to help those who struggle with
various roadblocks due to local, state or federal beuracracy (read incompetance and or fear mongering)
I have another idea that works well with this company/co-op which would work hand in hand with customers to help do other things like product
packaging, marketing group buys (say buy a page ad in magazine, split between 8 people, saving 50-70% as per buying 8 single ads of same size) and a
lot of other ideas like legal representation for all members (retained representation & discounted consultation & contract fees)
Not only would this "company" provide direct resales or group orders/buys, I see a great potential for at least a national line of products, possibly
international, that would be specifically friendly to those who frequent this site and other chemistry forums. Purity and quality is the key and as
it would sell to only "members" (not of the forum, but of the "co-op/company") I think it safe to assume we would not have to bow down to PR pressure
to do things like adding dilutants, emulsifiers or other impurities to things like acetone (use imagination to think of other products of similar
nature that often has numberous impurites because they are afraid of bad PR should the media think they can get a headline news spot by reporting
something). I have MANY products planned - 5 years of planning actually - none are listed or watched yet are hard to come by in unadulterated form.
On top of that, this whole glassware issue can be resolved by some legal manuvering with sales and shipping from various states and possibly
re-shipping if need-be, even to over-seas. Partnerships with Asian manufacturers and many American, Euro and SA companies seem potentially very
fruitful.
I'm not going to get into this any further, but there may be a very good oppertunity for some enterrising people to take advantage of what I have
explained above and start branching out from products they may already make to offering various items of popular interest at sales locations country
wide which are very open to this type of enterprise (think swap meets, farmers markets, flea markets, local online ads listing current items available
(free postings even) and lots more.
What I want to know from you is if there is any interest in something like this. Even if you are a person who needs to buy 300 lbs of sodium
silicate, or 50 lbs of KOH/NaOH occasionally, this endevour can help you tremendously.
If you have any interest or questions in something like this, please post and or U2U me with any questions. PLEASE, if you think this is a bad idea,
leave the sarcasm, mockery or total negativity elsewhere and bring forth enlightening statements or questions.
I very much look forward to hearing of anyones interest in this type of enterprise.
PS - Another BIG area of items to be carried are second hand lab and electronics equipment (tested & garunteed), purchased from surplus sales.
With a nationwide "Co'Op", purchses can be made and local members can help arrainge the shipping to the central local for refurbishment or
verification. For those who don't know, these surplus sales can be AMAZING values (like a $15,000 microscope for $100 because a blown fuse or burnt
resistor, or a $25,000 Computer battery UPS for $10-100 because the front panel circuit board connector had been corroded ($4 soldering job to fix...)
I've seen these deals and lots more. People in the co-op will be dedicated to finding these deals and bringing them to the members!
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j_sum1
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Sounds good. Workability for any venture like this depends on ability to connect buyers with products. I might be wrong but I think that most hobby
chemists tend to be a bit idiosyncratic in their usage and are generally low volume. And there are not that many of us. That makes marketing
somewhat tricky. OTOH, at prices like yu quote, you would not need that much i the way of sales to run a profit.
Good luck.
Would synthsource be of any assistance to you? (See my sig.)
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MolecularWorld
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No comment on everything else, but if you're in the US and need 50lbs of lye, this place has it for $105 with free shipping.
I haven't ordered anything from them, but a number of members here have, no question asked.
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RogueRose
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Posts: 1585
Registered: 16-6-2014
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Thanks for the suggestion! I have a serious question about what the price of what NaOH should be. I was reading in a forum dedicated to commercial
cleaning and they were talking about their supply purchases of lye. One stated that they paid $.20 per lb and another said it averaged $.23-.25/lb
and they purchased in 50 lb bags of 99%+ pure beads. Now that comes out to $10-12.50 per bag - all with local pickup. These posts were from the end
of 2011 so it wasn't to long ago.
Also, considering the price for 50 lbs of NaCl I can't see how NaOH would be 10-30x more expensive considering the more expensive (rarer) component of
the salt has been removed, most likely while harvesting H2 for additional resale as well, leaving the lowly base NaOH. Now KOH, I can see that being
somewhat more expensive but as the price for NaOH vs KOH is something like 1:1.25 while the price of NaCl vs KCl is more along the lines of 1:5 or
1:6. Should all things hold equal when looking at the base ingredients in bulk XOH production, the KOH should be MUCH more expensive than a 1:1.25
ration to the NaOH. I hop you follow my logic here. I have also found that the vast bulk/majority production of these two compounds are from the
same manner in the US, so I don't think the production method is what is making the difference here.
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MolecularWorld
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I have no idea "what the price of what NaOH should be." If you find a local supplier cheap enough to allow you to resell it at a better price than
Dudadiesel, then do so, on eBay and/or synthsource. People will buy it (though not many will want 50lbs or more). A large part of Dudadiesel's price
seems to be packaging and shipping; it's $45 in a bag, not including freight.
The production of lye from salt consumes tremendous amounts of energy, which will cost much more than the salt input. Though as you state, the
byproducts are also marketable, so I wouldn't be surprised if you can get 50lb bags of lye for around $10/bag, if you purchased
truckloads full directly from the factory. Good luck with that.
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