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Author: Subject: Nitrogen Generator
MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 5-3-2018 at 07:37


After much frustration getting all the right pieces for my input gas, I finally got everything I needed to test the Generon membrane filter and set it up this weekend.

generon setup edit.jpg - 389kB

Compressed air from the yellow cylinder is reduced to 100 PSI through the regulator, which flows into the input port of the filter. The filter splits this into permeate (oxygen-rich, exits out the side) and retentate (nitrogen-rich, exits through a needle valve at the other end) gas streams. Permeate is led away from the setup and any potential ignition sources. Retentate passed through a rotameter flowmeter, and then on to an open collection container.

The major annoyance was that the regulator is meant for nitrogen, so I needed to get special fittings for it to attach to the compressed air tank. The people at AirGas were nice enough to put those on for me, though. I think every single different gas has its own fitting system :mad:

The flowmeter is there to help gauge purity. The spec sheet for the 210 module relates output flow rate to nitrogen gas purity, so i.e. if I tweak the needle valve to output 5.9 SCFH I should be getting 99.5% pure nitrogen. (The real purity is actually about 1% lower, because the membrane only separates oxygen; other atmospheric gases pass through along with the nitrogen.)

I tested it out and it works really well. The nitrogen stream extinguishes flames, and the oxygen stream relights them. I tested the concentration of the oxygen stream and it's close to 50%, which is itself a useful product. Now, on to video production!
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[*] posted on 7-3-2018 at 04:18


Quote: Originally posted by sclarenonz  
Good day

(...)

if magnesium is a great fixative of nitrogen, I am now looking to isolate magnesium, and I saw that it is possible with ammonia, is it possible?



[Edited on 24-2-2018 by sclarenonz]

[Edited on 24-2-2018 by sclarenonz]



Get a magnesium salt, dissolve in minimum amount of water, mix with ascorbic/ citric acid dissolved in minimum amount of water with a 2.2 molar ratio acid to magnesium salt. Heat up to a boil, magnesium will fall out of solution. Wash on a bushner with water and ethanol. Let dry at RT.

[Edited on 7-3-2018 by BaFuxa]




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weilawei
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[*] posted on 13-3-2018 at 15:21


I've been trying to rig up a nitrogen generator, with no obvious success yet. In my first attempt, I put a pressure equalizing addition funnel onto a filter flask. In the flask, I put 0.5g of ammonium chloride in 100mL of water. In the addition funnel, 0.5g of sodium nitrite in 100mL of water. The filter flask connected to an oil bubbler with a balloon over the outlet.

I added the sodium nitrite solution slowly (~1 drop per second), but no bubbling was observed. After the addition, I began heating slowly. The bubbler began bubbling slowly (~1 bubble/2 seconds), picking up a little as the solution began to boil. Finally, no more bubbling was observed at the oil bubbler despite boiling continuing. The meager (barely inflated) contents of the balloon would not put put a candle, and a lit splint held in the addition funnel did not go out.

Well, that's round #1. Does anyone have experience with this reaction or references?

20180313_180625.jpg - 1.8MB

[Edited on 14-3-2018 by weilawei]
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MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 14-3-2018 at 09:57


Quote: Originally posted by BaFuxa  
Get a magnesium salt, dissolve in minimum amount of water, mix with ascorbic/ citric acid dissolved in minimum amount of water with a 2.2 molar ratio acid to magnesium salt. Heat up to a boil, magnesium will fall out of solution. Wash on a bushner with water and ethanol. Let dry at RT.

Do you have a reference for that? I highly doubt magnesium metal can be made from any aqueous reaction.
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MrHomeScientist
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[*] posted on 19-3-2018 at 14:58


My video on the filter is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-bbAwoG4Z8

Very cool technology, and it works well as far as I could test it. You can get both very pure nitrogen gas and oxygen-enriched air from it, both of which would be useful for amateur chemistry. I measured the oxygen side to be about 45% O2, but my method was pretty crude. Generon said they would expect about 40% max with my particular setup.

I could see this being especially useful if you hook it up to an air compressor for extended use. I used a cylinder because it was a lot simpler to set up for a quick test. With a compressor you need to condition your input air to remove oils, moisture, etc. A little pricey to get started, but once set up it's essentially free to run since the feedstock is just air!
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[*] posted on 19-3-2018 at 16:12


Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist  
My video on the filter is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-bbAwoG4Z8

Very cool technology, and it works well as far as I could test it. You can get both very pure nitrogen gas and oxygen-enriched air from it, both of which would be useful for amateur chemistry. I measured the oxygen side to be about 45% O2, but my method was pretty crude. Generon said they would expect about 40% max with my particular setup.

I could see this being especially useful if you hook it up to an air compressor for extended use. I used a cylinder because it was a lot simpler to set up for a quick test. With a compressor you need to condition your input air to remove oils, moisture, etc. A little pricey to get started, but once set up it's essentially free to run since the feedstock is just air!


just watched your video, this would be a perfect piece of apparatus for an inert gas glove box, 800$ for unlimited N2 supply, but if someone just needs (almost) pure N2 a few times for small projects (purging vials or general glassware) i would still prefer just a simple N2 cylinder





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[*] posted on 19-3-2018 at 17:32


Quote: Originally posted by weilawei  
I've been trying to rig up a nitrogen generator, with no obvious success yet. In my first attempt, I put a pressure equalizing addition funnel onto a filter flask. In the flask, I put 0.5g of ammonium chloride in 100mL of water. In the addition funnel, 0.5g of sodium nitrite in 100mL of water. The filter flask connected to an oil bubbler with a balloon over the outlet.

I added the sodium nitrite solution slowly (~1 drop per second), but no bubbling was observed. After the addition, I began heating slowly. The bubbler began bubbling slowly (~1 bubble/2 seconds), picking up a little as the solution began to boil. Finally, no more bubbling was observed at the oil bubbler despite boiling continuing. The meager (barely inflated) contents of the balloon would not put put a candle, and a lit splint held in the addition funnel did not go out.

Well, that's round #1. Does anyone have experience with this reaction or references?



[Edited on 14-3-2018 by weilawei]


I have not tried it, but my guess is that the dilute solutions are not reacting very quickly or producing much gas.

There are dozens of papers on the reaction. This one looks good: Reaction of Sodium Nitrite and Sulfamic Acid




This is my YouTube channel: Extreme Red Cabbage. I don't have much posted, but I try to do nice writeups once in a while.
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[*] posted on 20-3-2018 at 05:40


Quote: Originally posted by Ubya  
just watched your video, this would be a perfect piece of apparatus for an inert gas glove box, 800$ for unlimited N2 supply, but if someone just needs (almost) pure N2 a few times for small projects (purging vials or general glassware) i would still prefer just a simple N2 cylinder

Definitely agree. Thanks for the support!
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sclarenonz
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[*] posted on 20-3-2018 at 08:36


the price of the 222 kit is very expensive, it was logical to be cheap because it is only a menbrane 226 us can be very ship to american, but is expensive to one simple worker
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