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Author: Subject: Simple test for gyromitrin/ monomethylhydrazine?
Joe Skulan

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[*] posted on 16-3-2016 at 09:09
Simple test for gyromitrin/ monomethylhydrazine?

Although this question has come up tangentially in other threads, the answer has not.

False morels (Gyromitra sp) are considered toxic because they contain gyromitrin (N’-Ethylidene-N-methylformohydrazide), which hydrolyzes to toxic monomethylhydrazine in the body. The amount of gyromitrin varies a lot, by “species” (to the extent that that term means anything), population, environment, etc. In North America the whole group is avoided, even though most North American forms are undescribed and little work has been done on their toxicity.

What I wonder is if there might be a simple test for the presence of gyromitrin that could be used to determine if particular collections of false morels is in fact toxic. It would not need to be a quantitative test, just a yes-no test of whether gyromitrin was present above a certain concentration, say 50 ppm in a 1 gram sample.

A test for monomethylhydrazine would also work, if a reagent could be added to the sample to hydrolyze the gyromitrin. Alternatively, a non-specific test for hydrazines would work.
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[*] posted on 2-6-2016 at 07:02

i am not even in biochemistry but found this online , I WISH IT HELPS:D
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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 7-9-2016 at 13:21

Maybe like hydrazine does it would form a coloured precipitate energetic material upon contact with Ni(NO3)2 or Co(NO3)2?

Hydrazine forms
-a pink-lilac precipitate Ni(N2H4)3(NO3)2 from the emerald green solution of Ni(NO3)2...transcient deep blue precipitate complex is formed if excess Ni(NO3)2 is present.
-a peach brown precipitate Co(N2H4)3(NO3)2 from the ruby red solution of Co(NO3)2...
-with troubles an unstable (dangerous spontaneous inflamable) truquoise blue precipitate Cu(N2H4)2(NO3)2 from the saphire blue Cu(NO3)2 but most of the Cu(2+) is destroyed as brown-black sponge and N2 gas...
-Zn(NO3)2 forms a white precipitate complex.
-other bivalent metal cations do form complexes (I don't know if unsoluble) like Cd(NO3)2 (color?)

Owing to the close structural relationship between H2N-NH2 and CH3-NH-NH2, I suspect mono-methylhydrazine will do such alike complexes, also with specific colors and unsolubility.

PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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[*] posted on 20-11-2016 at 13:16

Its volatile, and can distill off in the cooking process. I asssume it decomposes in the gaseous state but this is a guess. (to MMH).

This is rocket fuel, don't forget. If a salt were prepared by leading the vapours into dilute acid to prepare, say, the monomethylhydrazinium sulfate, then when enough was collected to pass the base through a capillary tube, and a stream of dinitrogen tet intersecting with the exit stream, it should ignite spontaneously, this combination is used in rockets as a hypergolic bipropellant mixture.

Do bear in mind the stuff is nasty as hell, and the distillation itself hazardous (false morels are known to have killed the cook, iirc, who hadn't actually eaten any of the cooked mushrooms, after the gyromitrin/MMH fumes poisoned them.

Mechanism of action is interfering with GABA biosynthesis by buggering about with vitamin B6 (I think its B6, I mean pyridoxal phosphate), a cofactor in GABA biosynthesis, primary effects are neurological, convulsant, panicogen I'd assume, also secondary hepatotoxicity)

There is also activity similar to that of methotrexate, blockade of conversion of folate to folinic acid. There is, IIRC, a rapid reversal agent for methotrexate, leucovorin, that allows active vitamer function to proceed. This is calcium or sodium folinate. For a rapid response I would hazard a guess at the sodium salt being the more soluble and more rapidly absorbed.

Barbs or chlormethiazole would IMO probably do a better job of first response to seizures whilst medical help arrives. Barbiturate binding site agonists being capable of mediating ion flux through the GABAaR chloride channel irrespective of GABA binding, and since MMH/gyromitrin inhibit GABA biosynthesis there is less GABA present of course, lessening the effect of benzodiazepine-like allosteric modulators that enhance GABA responsivity but do not directly open chloride channels.

Chlormethiazole in particular is very, very fast acting even orally. Its a bugger to salt, but can't think why anyone would wish to. Also it eats plastics something vicious; I use it myself to control seizures and to stop one in its tracks if I can respond before it disables me too much, and it works in capsule form (freebase, marketed as heminevrin, thick gelcaps, that I suspect slow its action a bit, and and if used rectally it will do its thing in minutes, much akin to a more effective version of diastat.)

Just putting information out there, lest the fit hit the shan. Personally I'd just recommend not eating the things. Apparently low level continual exposure is carcinogenic.

Hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral and chiral,
My laevo is on the right side.
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