Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  
Author: Subject: Solid state rocket propellant
Science is my middle name
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 6-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 09:15
Solid state rocket propellant


I would like to build a test rocket to take a picture/video of the curvature of the earth, currently my plan is to build a three stage rocket were the first stage is composed of 3 solid propellant boosters to send the rocket 1/3 of the way up. The second stage will be a LOX and LH2 liquid fueled rocket engine to get it almost 2/3 of the way up with the third stage simply separating from the second stage and allowing enough time to deploy a parachute and delicate equipment such as a thermometer and visual streaming feed to save the video if the parachute fails. Does anyone have ideas for a strong enough propellant for the first stage? Ammonium perchlorate and aluminum powder + binder?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aurium
Harmless
*




Posts: 46
Registered: 4-10-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: Energetic

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 09:55


Consider a high altitude balloon. Not as cool but much more feasible for amateur. :D
View user's profile View All Posts By User
hissingnoise
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pulverulescent!

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 10:57


Or a camera with wide-angle lens on a pole? :D

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Science is my middle name
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 6-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 11:11


I really don't think a wide angle lens on a pole will work. I have already built the second stage of the rocket and I'm not going to disassemble it.
Does anyone have ideas for the fuel for stage 1.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sciencemasta
Harmless
*




Posts: 2
Registered: 22-3-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 11:44


I think you should use a hot air balloon because it will be simple to get /make
View user's profile View All Posts By User
hissingnoise
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: Pulverulescent!

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 12:01


Quote:
I really don't think a wide angle lens on a pole will work.

Sorry Sn, I can resist anything but the slightest temptation to take the piss . . .

Welcome to scimad!

View user's profile View All Posts By User
Science is my middle name
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 6-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 12:22


Does anyone have any ideas for a solid state rocket propellant.
What about
16% Aluminum powder
69.6% Ammonium perchlorate
0.4% Iron (III) Oxide
12.4% PBAN binder
1.6% Epoxy curing agent
Would this work?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aurium
Harmless
*




Posts: 46
Registered: 4-10-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: Energetic

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 12:23



luna-park-slingshot-e1439518666669.jpg - 33kB

Or build a giant slingshot and fling a camera ball into the blue.

But wait you already have the LOX/LH2 stage built?? Now that's something it'd like to see.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Science is my middle name
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 6-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 12:24


I don't have a camera yet
It should be here in about a week
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Herr Haber
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1094
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 12:59


Your idea is correct.
Now, I'm pretty sure that people who might be able to help you would do so more willingly if you demonstrated something that would make them take you seriously.
Any previous achievements perhaps?

Because saying you already have a liquid oxygen and hydrogen second stage is no small feat. You must have some data to share I hope? Burn time, thrust, projected weight of the whole rocket and it's different stages, etc
.
There are some "rocket scientists" (not me) around here who might help you a long way if you show you are serious and already have some "know how".
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Science is my middle name
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 6-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 13:32


I get what your saying but really this is my first major thing. My friends were starting this and they asked me if I had any ideas so I decided to help them. They work mostly with mechanical and electrical things while I am the chemist of the group. Currently I'm at school and the half built rocket is at there house.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Science is my middle name
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 6-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 13:53


One of my friends sent me an extremely rough sketch he quickly doodled out. We are all in school right now though.

image.jpeg - 268kB
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Aurium
Harmless
*




Posts: 46
Registered: 4-10-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: Energetic

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 14:22


:D
Go for it! I'm sure you'll learn something along the way.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
hyfalcon
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2012
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 15:03


Don't know where you plan to launch this thing at, but something that weighs more than a ton has some liability attached to it IF it gets off the ground and IF it doesn't blow up on the launch pad it will have to come down somewhere. Have you thought of any of that? Landing zone?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2880
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 15:22


If your rocket goes on a strange unpredicted pathway or cato for a reason or another ... destroying personal/civilian/natural structure ... scaring, injuring or killing people...you might be in serious troubles...

It could also be considered a treat of terrorism or nuclear missile and be destroyed by military forces...without flying rights...maybe crossing civilian aerial transport...

So such big rockets are a lot of troubles...good luck!




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Science is my middle name
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 6-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 22-3-2016 at 15:57


My friends are taking care of that. We are going to get a permit from the FAA and get it all the way down to the mohaji desert in Southern California where there are several amateur rocketry groups. The main thing is getting the permit though.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Oscilllator
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 659
Registered: 8-10-2012
Location: The aqueous layer
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-3-2016 at 03:10


Quote: Originally posted by Science is my middle name  
My friends are taking care of that. We are going to get a permit from the FAA and get it all the way down to the mohaji desert in Southern California where there are several amateur rocketry groups. The main thing is getting the permit though.

I really think you should build a few small rockets before you go for a 3-stage one. Have you tried building some small sugar rockets to start with? They can be great fun and teach the basics of rocket building.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
j_sum1
Administrator
********




Posts: 5786
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline

Mood: Possessor of a tidy and organised lab. Now to mess it up again.

[*] posted on 23-3-2016 at 03:33


With that in mind, I recommend yt channel "The king of random". He has a nice series on rockets and some really good ideas.



View user's profile View All Posts By User
NedsHead
National Hazard
****




Posts: 409
Registered: 9-12-2014
Location: South Australia
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-3-2016 at 04:35


Sugar rockets are great fun, I took a 1.5kg (no nozzle) KNSU rocket out into the desert a few weeks ago, I'll share the footage when I catch up with my friend who filmed it (soon I hope) I didn't spend much time making the motor cases but they turned out fine.

DSC_2348.jpg - 1.6MB DSC_2351.jpg - 2.2MB DSC_2354.jpg - 2.4MB

[Edited on 23-3-2016 by NedsHead]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Science is my middle name
Harmless
*




Posts: 10
Registered: 6-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-3-2016 at 07:10


I have built loads of small sugar rockets about 18" tall to 36" tall I have even tested KNO3 + another fuel to make new fuels and learn about the properties of certain fuels. Also I frequently watch grant thompsons king of random vids.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Microtek
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 647
Registered: 23-9-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-3-2016 at 07:20


Beside the risks and technical difficulties, have you thought about the expense? If you are in school, I'm guessing you don't have a large income, and a litteral ton of chemicals can be expensive (even if they are not particularly exotic).

Having said that, and assuming you are not simply trolling, go with a composite propellant similar to the ones used in other space programs. You'll want something that's tried and tested and you'll want to read huge amounts of technical litterature to establish exactly how to prepare and load the propellant grain. Knowing the chemical makeup of the propellant is just scraping the surface of what you need. If, say, your processing of the propellant before curing isn't good enough, you could easily end up with large bubbles in the grain which could lead to CATO.
There's also the questions of grain geometry, body- and nozzle materials (you need a protracted burn which is very demanding of the materials) and aerodynamics. You have a LOT of reading ahead of you.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Herr Haber
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1094
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-3-2016 at 14:26


Quote: Originally posted by NedsHead  
I'll share the footage when I catch up with my friend who filmed it (soon I hope) I didn't spend much time making the motor cases but they turned out fine.



[Edited on 23-3-2016 by NedsHead]


Yes, I'd like to see that !
View user's profile View All Posts By User
NedsHead
National Hazard
****




Posts: 409
Registered: 9-12-2014
Location: South Australia
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-3-2016 at 22:33


"Core diameter? meh.. I'll just eyeball it" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwvW-u9_igI
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Oscilllator
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 659
Registered: 8-10-2012
Location: The aqueous layer
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 27-3-2016 at 22:42


Quote: Originally posted by NedsHead  
"Core diameter? meh.. I'll just eyeball it" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwvW-u9_igI

NedsHead I've had this exact same problem and I rather suspect it had less to do with core diameter and more to do with numerous cracks in the fuel, massively increasing the surface area. I suspect there is a very good reason why NASA uses pourable, rubberised propellant.
How did you drill your cores though? I have personally found that to be the limiting factor when it came to reasonably sized rockets. It's extremely difficult to drill a core after it has been packed, and equally difficult to get a good packing with a rod of the correct diameter sitting inside the rocket ready to be pulled out once it is packed.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
NedsHead
National Hazard
****




Posts: 409
Registered: 9-12-2014
Location: South Australia
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 28-3-2016 at 00:19


you could be right about the cracks Oscilllator, I did the coring while the fuel was still hot and pliable just after pouring, I don't think the coring itself was the problem, most likely the hours of rough travel to the launch location that might have cracked the fuel.

I made a jig from scrap steel to do the core and it worked quite well, I clamped the coring rod in my lathe and turned it slowly while I fed the rocket in from the other end by hand and gave it an occasional spray of silicon.

DSC_2424.jpg - 2.9MB

[Edited on 28-3-2016 by NedsHead]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  

  Go To Top