Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: ß-voltaic battery
CrossxD
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 55
Registered: 6-7-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: stainless

[*] posted on 25-3-2016 at 04:41
ß-voltaic battery


I'd like to make ß-voltaic battery but wich isotope is easy to find and is ß emmiter?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betavoltaic_device
View user's profile View All Posts By User
unionised
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3045
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 25-3-2016 at 05:37


Anything that emits many beta particles is potentially very dangerous and is, therefore, not easy to find.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2655
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic

[*] posted on 25-3-2016 at 05:55


This belongs to the Radiochemistry part of the forum in Special Topics...not to the Energetic Materials.

[Edited on 25-3-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
View user's profile View All Posts By User
octonitrocubane
Banned troll
*




Posts: 9
Registered: 17-3-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 27-3-2016 at 15:04


Seriously, don't bother. When a garage full of TATP goes up, its instant kaboom for anyone within 100 yards. When radiochemistry goes wrong, lingering death. Don't.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
XeonTheMGPony
National Hazard
****




Posts: 480
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 27-3-2016 at 19:17


Quote: Originally posted by octonitrocubane  
Seriously, don't bother. When a garage full of TATP goes up, its instant kaboom for anyone within 100 yards. When radiochemistry goes wrong, lingering death. Don't.


you've read too much internets my friend. Or not enough.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sulaiman
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1172
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: Walsall, England
Member Is Online


[*] posted on 28-3-2016 at 05:33


If you think that normal amateur chemistry has legal obstacles, try radiochemistry !
my workmate who does radiochemistry as a hobby has far more restrictions/obstacles.
The main problems seem to be disposal of low-level waste and transportation... research this thoroughly before you start.

If you can work in the pA range then the americium alpha source from a smoke detector could be used..
(not legal in USA to access the americium)
As above, usable electrical output requires scary amounts of radioactivity.

[Edited on 28-3-2016 by Sulaiman]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Theoretic
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 756
Registered: 17-6-2003
Location: London, the Land of Sun, Summer and Snow
Member Is Offline

Mood: eating the souls of dust mites

[*] posted on 22-4-2016 at 05:01


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
If you think that normal amateur chemistry has legal obstacles, try radiochemistry !
my workmate who does radiochemistry as a hobby has far more restrictions/obstacles.
The main problems seem to be disposal of low-level waste and transportation... research this thoroughly before you start.

If you can work in the pA range then the americium alpha source from a smoke detector could be used..
(not legal in USA to access the americium)
As above, usable electrical output requires scary amounts of radioactivity.

[Edited on 28-3-2016 by Sulaiman]

The tritium from a betalight might work here. The output should be detectable, since the light it produces by luminescence is clearly visible. However, for this one'd need some way of concentrating the tritium on the surface/inside the photovotaic cell material, and stop it from oxidizing.
(whatever you do, don't let it catch fire :o)




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Steam
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 173
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline

Mood: Triple Point

[*] posted on 22-4-2016 at 06:28


^Theoretic
I have used a small tritium light with an array of very small photovoltaic cells sounding it.It does produce a bit of energy but no where near the amount that the cells would produce just sitting out in the room.

However, I only used one H3 light, If you were able to remove the glass tube from the plastic, and bundle several of them together you might get a reasonable voltage.




I am stronger than most children.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
phlogiston
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1050
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: Neon Thorium Erbium Lanthanum Neodymium Sulphur
Member Is Offline

Mood: pyrophoric

[*] posted on 22-4-2016 at 06:34


Theoretic, actually, setting it on fire seems like a good first step to me to bind the tritium into a compound. Use the T2O that forms upon combustion (probably mostly THO actually) to prepare a hydroxide (tritoxide?) or other solid non-volatile compound that is easier to handle safely than the tritium gas.



-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bert
Super Administrator
Thread Moved
22-4-2016 at 12:51
Theoretic
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 756
Registered: 17-6-2003
Location: London, the Land of Sun, Summer and Snow
Member Is Offline

Mood: eating the souls of dust mites

[*] posted on 22-4-2016 at 22:49


Steam: 'betavoltaics' must be the beta particles making energy by *directly* interacting with the photovoltaic material. So for example if one or both of the electrodes of the cell absorbed tritium, and some betas impacted the semiconductor and made electron-hole pairs, that would literally be betavoltaic.
The reason to not set it on fire, is that tritium in any form other than the uncombined gas, is a much bigger radiohazard, due to being taken up into metabolism (which is really its main hazard, unless the fireball melts your face off ;)).
But if a hydroxide compound was made this way, it'd still be called hydroxide (protoxide, deuteroxide and tritoxide are all different kinds of 'hydroxide').




View user's profile View All Posts By User
neptunium
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 904
Registered: 12-12-2011
Location: between Uranium and Plutonium
Member Is Offline

Mood: meta stable

[*] posted on 23-4-2016 at 07:34


in order to get the inner coating of phosphor to glow, a LARGE amount of radiation is required.
Tritium is great because its a volatile gas so if the ampoule breaks, most of it is gone in half a second .so they usually fill it with good purity gas and tritium has a reasonable half life.
You should have no problem getting a good voltage giving that you could either insert the photo cell inside the glass containing the tritium OR getting the H3 out into your set up without leaking too much .
there is not a lot of gas but its well over a curie of activity. if you combine it with anything you`ll have a very serious radio hazard on your hands.




Http://www.d-radlab.com/
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
CrossxD
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 55
Registered: 6-7-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: stainless

[*] posted on 30-11-2016 at 11:10


and how about other elements and their isotopes? Uranium can be found in nature.... can be activated by neutrons... somehow?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
careysub
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1339
Registered: 4-8-2014
Location: Coastal Sage Scrub Biome
Member Is Offline

Mood: Lowest quantum state

[*] posted on 30-11-2016 at 12:31


If you extracted lead from uranium ore you would end up with lead containing the beta emitter Pb-210 which has a 22 Y half-life, and decays into Bi-210 which is also a beta emitter. That is your best bet for getting a beta emitter from natural uranium.

BTW: tritium glow tubes contain anywhere from 1 curie up to maybe 30 curies depending on brightness and cost. This is 0.1 to 3 mg of tritium.

Tritium gas is safe because your body does not absorb hydrogen gas at any significant rate. HTO vapor on the other hand (I decided saying HTO OTOH would too confusing) is efficiently absorbed by the lungs, and 1 mg of tritium as HTO is a lethal dose, making it as toxic as sarin nerve gas.

You will not see any detectable combustion with ~1 mg of tritium, and oxidizing it to HTO is not a good idea for safety reasons.

Forming a metal hydride though would be completely safe, and a better bet for fixing the tritium in one place for further manipulation. One of the best hydrogen getters is uranium metal, which can be obtained from United Nuclear. Other hydride forming metals can be used though.




About that which we cannot speak, we must remain silent.
-Wittgenstein

Some things can never be spoken
Some things cannot be pronounced
That word does not exist in any language
It will never be uttered by a human mouth
- The Talking Heads
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top