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Author: Subject: Bamboozled
Rhodanide
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shocked.gif posted on 30-3-2016 at 09:27
Bamboozled


Welp, the time has come for me to dispose of my HMTD. It's just too dangerous for me to handle, nor do I have a proper way to store it. I need a way to dispose of it chemically, and if push comes to detonation, then I'll just blow it up underground.

Now what I need from you guys is a simple (preferably) way to dispose of it chemically. Now: I know that cc. NaOH (solution) works for TATP, will it work for HMTD?
ANY help is warmly welcomed.

Cheers!

~T

[Edited on 30-3-2016 by Tetra]
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Bot0nist
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[*] posted on 30-3-2016 at 13:56




Attachment: tmp_16940-2008 Destruction of Peroxide Explosives695709667.pdf (492kB)
This file has been downloaded 577 times
The url.
http://energetics.chm.uri.edu/system/files/2008%2520Destruct...

May be best to dissolve in a solvent and safely burn. What quantity are you talking about?

[Edited on 30-3-2016 by Bot0nist]




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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 31-3-2016 at 01:40


Quote:
Welp, the time has come for me to dispose of my HMTD.

HMTD hydrolyses slowly in cold water so its disposal is not that big a deal . . . ?

In boiling water the decomposition is rapid!

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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 31-3-2016 at 01:53


'Course, if you're in a real big hurry?

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Rhodanide
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[*] posted on 31-3-2016 at 08:23


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:
Welp, the time has come for me to dispose of my HMTD.

HMTD hydrolyses slowly in cold water so its disposal is not that big a deal . . . ?

In boiling water the decomposition is rapid!





It does??
I had no idea. I know that it is insoluble so I didn't think that it would work that way.
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Rhodanide
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[*] posted on 31-3-2016 at 08:30


Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  



The url.
http://energetics.chm.uri.edu/system/files/2008%2520Destruct...

May be best to dissolve in a solvent and safely burn. What quantity are you talking about?

[Edited on 30-3-2016 by Bot0nist]



Problem is, I don't have a lot of this stuff... THF... Helium gas... Copper Chloride... ETC and I am pressed for money as I am getting a job this summer. Plus, I remember someone telling me about dissolving it in Toluene and burning the mixture, which I think I'll try. I just asked this question because I believed the procedure to be different. Thanks anyways.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 31-3-2016 at 10:22


HMTD is sparingly soluble in water ─ I know of no solvent that will readily dissolve HMTD . . . ?

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Rhodanide
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[*] posted on 1-4-2016 at 10:18


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
HMTD is sparingly soluble in water ─ I know of no solvent that will readily dissolve HMTD . . . ?



"sparingly" doesn't give me that good of an idea. Do you have a g/ml or something?
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 1-4-2016 at 11:22


I don't actually, but it's googleable, I'm sure . . .

If you've less than a kg, just deflagrate it in small batches!

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Rhodanide
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[*] posted on 13-4-2016 at 09:37


Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
I don't actually, but it's googleable, I'm sure . . .

If you've less than a kg, just deflagrate it in small batches!



That's the problem! I've had some detonate when I was sure it'd deflagrate!
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XeonTheMGPony
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[*] posted on 13-4-2016 at 09:51


dig a shallow pit, dump it in, set an electric match, then fire from a distance
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 13-4-2016 at 10:22


What is the problem with flushing it down the drain? It does not contain heavy metals so it doesn't form a problem for the environment. If it doesn't explode in your sink it won't do it in the sewer. HMTD is degraded in aqueous environments.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 13-4-2016 at 10:31


Quote:
I've had some detonate when I was sure it'd deflagrate!

Clean HMTD shouldn't detonate in small quantities when it's initiated by flame!

But contact with strongly heated metal may cause detonation . . . ?

How much do you have?

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[*] posted on 20-4-2016 at 18:30


Thought this might be of interest. Taken from the abstract of the paper, "Determination of peroxide-based explosives with copper(II)–neocuproine assay combined with a molecular spectroscopic sensor":

"The two members of peroxide-based explosives, triacetone triperoxide (TATP) and hexamethylene triperoxide diamine (HMTD), can be manufactured from readily accessible reagents, and are difficult to detect by conventional analytical methods. TATP and HMTD were securely synthesized, taken up with acetone, hydrolyzed with 4 M HCl to hydrogen peroxide, the acidic solution containing H2O2 was neutralized,.........."

Personally, I would just use an electric match for ignition in a safe location. If it was spread out in a thin enough trail it would just deflagrate or at least would be a much less intense/less powerful event than if it was ignited in one big pile. When it's gone it's gone and there is no doubt or need for further worry. The idea of dissolving it in acetone, if a suitable solvent, and burning seems like a good one.


[Edited on 21-4-2016 by Hennig Brand]




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Rhodanide
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[*] posted on 2-5-2017 at 05:48


I ended up burying it a 2 feet under dense soil in a compostable container, and let time do its work. It's almost gone now.



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[*] posted on 2-5-2017 at 08:39


I stored a little HDMT long time ago and even pure it decomposes slowly over time, so nature will do its job.
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