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Author: Subject: Energetic Tetrazole Writeup
a nitrogen rich explosive
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[*] posted on 3-5-2016 at 12:09
Energetic Tetrazole Writeup


Energetic Tetrazole Derivatives

a nitrogen rich explosive
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Part 1A – 5-aminotetrazole

5-aminotetrazole is the most simple tetrazole derivative. It is a primary amine, allowing for numerous reactions and substitutions to take place. Most complex tetrazoles involve 5-aminotetrazole in their synthesis.

Synthesis

Chemicals required:

- 6.8 grams aminoguanidium bicarbonate
- 20 ml 32% nitric acid
- 3.5 grams sodium nitrite
- 5.8 grams sodium carbonate
- Reflux condenser
- 20 ml 30% sulphuric acid

SHIT SYNTHESIS REMOVED

Part 1B – synthesis of diazotetrazole

Extreme caution must be taken. Diazotetrazole is both extremely highly explosive and very cantankerous. DO NOT SCALE UP ANY QUANTITIES IN THIS EXPERIMENT.

Synthesis

Chemicals required:
2.5 grams 5-aminotetrazole
0.75 grams sodium hydroxide
1.7 grams sodium nitrite
85 grams crushed ice
A significant quantity of salt, ice and water
8ml 30% nitric acid

SHIT SYNTHESIS REMOVED

Part 2A – tetrazene

Synthesis

Chemicals required:

3.4 grams aminoguanidine bicarbonate
250ml water
1.6 grams glacial acetic acid
2.8 grams sodium nitrite

SHIT SYNTHESIS REMOVED

Part 2B – 5-azidotetrazole

Synthesis

Chemicals required:

0.5 grams tetrazene
0.5 grams sodium hydroxide
2 grams glacial acetic acid
1.2 grams copper oxide

SHIT SYNTHESIS REMOVED

Part 3A – ditetrazolylhexaazadiene

Synthesis

Chemicals required:

0.7 grams hydrazinium chloride
1 gram diazotetrazole
SHIT SYNTHESIS REMOVED

[Edited on 3-5-2016 by a nitrogen rich explosive]

The above syntheses have been removed for postulating such retardation as isolating diazotetrazole on the gram scale

[Edited on 9-5-16 by The_Davster]




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[*] posted on 4-5-2016 at 10:15


So have you run all these syntheses? If not, say so. It's nothing wrong with a purely theoretical writeup - but then you MUST PROVIDE REFERENCES.

Now, as I have spent countless hours reading literature on energetic tetrazole derivatives and synthesised these five compounds myself I notice your critical mistakes. Your diazotetrazole procedure has nothing to do with reality - there is no such thing as drying a solution that detonates at concentrations below 10%. Neither can you wash a soluble copper salt with a base, not to mention that your azidotetrazole procedure was taken from a post describing the violent explosion that occurred during the synthesis. It actually doesn't form 5-azidotetrazole if it is performed correctly. Your tetrazene section is pretty much copied from COPAE, although you brought down the scale to one tenth.

Posting untested, incorrect and potentially dangerous synthesis instructions would be more acceptable if it was a cake recipe. Doing the same with one of the most dangerous category of energetic materials is absolutely intolerable. Having a gram of azidotetrazole or ditetrazolylhexaazadiene go off unexpectedly is potentially lethal.

By the way, 9300 m/s was only an early estimate. The calculated velocity of detonation is 9600 m/s.
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[*] posted on 4-5-2016 at 10:33


It is wonderful to have Experienced people here.

Hands-on experience beats bullshit every single time.




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[*] posted on 4-5-2016 at 12:57


1A, 1B, 2A and 3A have all been done. And no, my tetrazene procedure isn't from COPAE, it's from PrepChem. A very useful site. My findings for 2B were based on the procedure tried by an experienced friend. I assumed that it would be azidotetrazole because I am not particularly experienced in tetrazole chemistry. So those were mistakes in 2B. I did once manage to dry diazotetrazole once, though I used far too little nitrite/HCl. So it was probably a solution of a tiny amount of diazotetrazole and mostly 5-ATZ.




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[*] posted on 4-5-2016 at 13:09


Quote: Originally posted by a nitrogen rich explosive  
1A, 1B, 2A and 3A have all been done.

By Whom ?

Do you have any Data at all ?

Science Madness, as the Name suggests, involves some Science, ergo some Data as Evidence for other people to make a judgement on.

No Data = No Science = Nothing happened worth arguing about.

Speculation is interesting, IF based on actual WORK with Data.

Random unfounded shit should be in Beginnings, where it can have a Happy Home, get discussed, even get really useful comments, perhaps progress.

This garbage is as close to Pre-Publication as my agaspace notions or my left toenail.

i.e nowhere near close enough to meet the Scientific Standard required.




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[*] posted on 4-5-2016 at 13:26


By me.

What particular data (VoD, critical diameter?)

The copper salt washed by a base was an idea in the edit to prevent an azidotetrazole situation.

Just so you know, I am working on azidoazide azide (1,1-azobis(tetrazole)) from OTC materials.

[Edited on 4-5-2016 by a nitrogen rich explosive]

[Edited on 4-5-2016 by a nitrogen rich explosive]




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[*] posted on 4-5-2016 at 15:05


While I do not agree with aga that this belongs in Beginnings, I do agree that it does not belong in Prepub considering the lack of pictures, references, yield information, or characterization of any sort. These standards are some which I feel must be upheld, to maintain a certain quality of posts in Prepub. Not to say this is bad, just that it doesn't meet all of the admittedly vague requirements for posts in Prepub. Energetic Materials might be a better place for it.



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[*] posted on 4-5-2016 at 15:40


As there is absolutely no proof that a nitrogen rich explosive actually did any of these procedures and it does not meet the criteria required by Prepublication, this will be moved to Beginnings. I don't know enough about the compounds in question to determine the validity of anything here, but since Dornier has responded so critically to the procedures and he is undisputedly the tetrazole expert around here, I will take his word for it.



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The_Davster
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[*] posted on 9-5-2016 at 13:54


@"A nitrogen rich explosive"

I am watching all your future posts. You did not isolate diazotetrazole. You have presented a synthesis of diazotetrazole and presented it as if it has been carried out.

Anyone attempting to do the syntheses you presented would have lost fingers at the minimum.

I have deleted all the syntheses you have presented
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