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Author: Subject: Hardware store chemicals - questions
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[*] posted on 4-2-2011 at 20:32


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9270#p...


Thank you. This site is pretty big! I trust your results. Looks like some more work was needed for me.

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Might it be a little rash to recommend against using any drain cleaner sulfuric for any synthesis based on your experience with one drain cleaner in one synthesis?


Another bad experience I've had is with the quality of another drain cleaner which was light brown and yellow, and even clear. I have attempted to get rid of the yellow brown tinge by boiling the same drain cleaner amount with conc. H2O2, several times! It got clear, but boiling further the color just reverted to light brown again, this suggests an inorganic impurity.

Quote:
Perhaps better advice would be not to use what you described as "cheap" drain cleaner with a foul odor.


Certainly. That's a good warning indicator of an impurity I would have been better off paying attention to in the first place. The odor of the acid wasn't too strong though, the scent smelled something like used motor oil. I have reagent grade conc. H2SO4 which is entirely colorless and odorless, which I should have used. But figured the drain cleaner would have done the job as good.

Quote:
From your thread it is far from clear that the sulfuric was the cause of your reported symptoms.


H2S poisoning was the most I could gather at the time. But now I'm entirely convinced it had only a small, if any role. The respiratory effects were, yes, similar and the smell very foul which hints at a sulfur toxin. The reason I'm convinced it was the acid, is because I had to get rid of my distillate. Some of it was destroyed with oxidants, but with distillate amount of 1mL impure dimethyl sulfide, working outside with a chemical respirator I felt strong but less severe effects again for several days. This strongly suggests it was the acid impurity. This impurity is the most wicked compound I've ever encountered, extremely foul smelling and travels distances rapidly.

Quote:
In this video, Robert Thompson shows a bottle of Rooto that is crystal clear and titrates to 18 molar. Rooto is typically an excellent source of sulfuric for the home chemist and you have not presented any evidence to the contrary.


18 M would tell you the acid content itself, but does not rule out other impurities. Use at your own risk. My experiment was supposed to be entirely harmless. I suggest to look for warning indicators of impurities in your acid (color, smell, foam, etc.) before and if you do use it.
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 07:33


After hearing many of you talk about how hard to find some of these chemicals are, I was pretty surprised to find that my local Home Depot stocks a lot of them. All in the same section I found xylene, acetone, MEK, TSP, toluene, and phosphoric acid (Klean Strip Phosphoric Prep & Etch, whose <a href="http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/KS%20Phosphoric%20Prep%20and%20Etch.pdf">MSDS</a> claims 34 - 35% with no other ingredients, although it does have colorants).

All of them look like regular products, and not the "last item on the shelf, won't be restocked" type that was talked about earlier. I'm not sure if Florida hasn't gotten around to removing them yet, but for the time being things seem pretty easy to come by.

I went ahead and bought some TSP because it was cheap and sounded like the most likely to disappear soon, but I don't really have any good experiments to use it for. Any suggestions?
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[*] posted on 5-2-2011 at 09:32


I recently polished off my 1 gallon supply of Rooto sulfuric acid, which I bought probably 5 years ago. This had a slight orange tint, but never gave me any problems. I just bought a new half gallon jug of Rooto acid and it is completely clear.

I noticed recently that my local brewers supply is now carrying one gallon jugs of regular full strength phosphoric acid.




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[*] posted on 6-3-2011 at 10:21


I agree with entropy51, rooto drain cleaner is a really good source for sulfuric acid. I use it all the time. It is crystal clear and I've never had a problem.
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[*] posted on 29-3-2011 at 13:05


During some recent assays of oleum I began to suspect the strength of the "98% sulfuric acid" that I bought from Elemental Scientific. I bought this specifically for its high strength, intending to use it for sulfonations.

I was first suspicious that it wasn't very strong just due to its relatively low viscosity, but never assayed it. Then when I used it to make up an oleum the oleum assayed much lower than I had calculated. Therefore, I decided to assay the Elemental Scientific sulfuric acid, and the Rooto that I had recently bought.

The Elemental Scientific acid titrated out as 89.3%. And to my surprise, the Rooto was titrated as 88.4%. In both cases I titrated with 1.04N NaOH, standardized with 0.1N KH phthalate.

Has anyone else tested the strength of their con sulfuric acid?

[Edited on 29-3-2011 by Magpie]




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[*] posted on 29-3-2011 at 13:16


I did a very basic titration of Rooto H2SO4 and I believe it came out to be 18.4 molar? Though the accuracy of this isn't trust-worthy, the NaOH it was titrated with was not standardized.
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[*] posted on 29-3-2011 at 13:27


Quote: Originally posted by smaerd  
I did a very basic titration of Rooto H2SO4 and I believe it came out to be 18.4 molar?


My handbook says that this would be just over 98%.




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[*] posted on 29-3-2011 at 14:01


It must be incorrect. Sorry for posting.
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[*] posted on 29-3-2011 at 15:18


Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
The Elemental Scientific acid titrated out as 89.3%.
Weigh 100 mL in a volumetric flask to check the density as a check on the titration.
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[*] posted on 29-3-2011 at 15:32


A liter of H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4</sub> bought from dudadeisel claims 98% with an MSDS that list contaminate as <0.01% Fe. Titration with NaHO to around 95%

Orange colored liquid lightning "virgin sulfuric acid" drain cleaner titrated at 96%~97% though heavy contamination is apparent.

No Rooto acid can be found in my local area. Only their NaHO/KHO type.

[Edited on 29-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
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[*] posted on 30-3-2011 at 08:23


Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
The Elemental Scientific acid titrated out as 89.3%.
Weigh 100 mL in a volumetric flask to check the density as a check on the titration.


The density of the Elemental Scientific acid was measured by this method at 1.832 @16C. For acid at 20C my handbook says this is 93.7%.

For 89.3% acid the density should be 1.81.




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[*] posted on 5-2-2018 at 19:08


If not already said, synthesises just have side reactions anyways.
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[*] posted on 16-2-2018 at 20:48


Yeah that's very true. It's easy in the beginning to think that chemistry is very black and white. A perfect science even... the more experiments you do (and some are real give sways) you realise that side reactions are pretty much inevitable as the products 'on the side' where all a part of the process of electrons playing musical chairs so to speak and they play a part deep within the black box that they occupy the speculative and the theoretical aspects of chemistry.... A + B may = C but no-one ever said that A or B was absolute values... we just always saw them that way.



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[*] posted on 28-2-2018 at 16:11


Hi everyone. I didn't read all the post, just page one and this last page. I can't recall seeing rooto in my area, but "liquid lightning" has two varieties at the lowes store near me. One is a nasty black waste product that someone had the sense to bottle and sell, but I wouldn't touch this out of respect for my equipment. The other one labeled "professional strength", is nearly clear, boasts 93 percent, worked with phenol sulfonation (firsthand) but did not work in production of chromic acid. The damn chromate went green/blue on me so it's heavily corrupted in use there. I treated this acid to flame w broken Pyrex subbing for boiling chips. This helped bring the concentration up but the same issue with chromic acid persisted. Adding drop wise h2o2 finished the job. I don't recommend this though as Caro's acid can form.. Hope this helps anyone
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