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Author: Subject: I hope this isn't a stupid question.....
indigofuzzy
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sad.gif posted on 3-10-2006 at 20:59
I hope this isn't a stupid question.....


I'm just a bit confused. I see that this site is called "ScienceMadness," although its contents are almost strictly chemistry. Is this intended to be just a chemistry forum?

Or maybe, is there a possibility to get some other branches of science into here, like amybe a section for physics, or astronomy, or electronics (after all, at the end of the day, chemistry is really an electrical phenomenon). It would fit the title of the site much better. Otherwise, it should be called "ChemistryMadness," because there's Sooooooooo much more to science than just chemistry.

Or maybe I'm just a raving lunatic asking for too much... Or maybe I'm the Calculus Fairy!
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enhzflep
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[*] posted on 3-10-2006 at 22:23


Hmmm. Surely a Calculus Fairy would integrate. No?

Seriously though, there are threads containing each of the topics you mentioned (and many,many more).

Technochemistry, and Misc IIRC should contain Phys, Astro & Elec.

I'd be inclined to believe that the site's copntents are simply skewed in the direction of the most interest. I can see your point, but it's a good name and there's no real reason to change it to reflect the (evolving) 'personality' of the site.
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woelen
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[*] posted on 3-10-2006 at 22:47


Indigofuzzy, I understand your point and I also have wondered about that. So, your question does not seem stupid to me. What makes sciencemadness so special, compared to many other boards, is that the great majority of members actually DO science at home. That makes it so attractive (at least for me, and I assume for most other members).

Now, what can people do at home? I think the two basic sciences, which lend themselves best for home experimenting are chemistry and mathematics. Even with the current climate of chemophobia, it still is possible to experiment at home with chemistry. With physics, one can do some experiments, but it is much more limited, and mostly restricted to electromagnetism. I still must meet the first person, who does practical particle physics at home :D.

So, from a practical point of view I perfectly understand the direction in which sciencemadness has grown.




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not_important
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[*] posted on 3-10-2006 at 23:14


Quote:
Originally posted by woelen
... With physics, one can do some experiments, but it is much more limited, and mostly restricted to electromagnetism. I still must meet the first person, who does practical particle physics at home :D.


However there is recent discussion of making cloud chambers, so it's not completely void of particle physics. And with a cloud chamber and enough patience, one can occasional see an atomic reaction 8-)
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evilscripter69
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[*] posted on 6-2-2007 at 00:17


Quote:
Originally posted by indigofuzzy
I'm just a bit confused. I see that this site is called "ScienceMadness," although its contents are almost strictly chemistry. Is this intended to be just a chemistry forum?

Or maybe, is there a possibility to get some other branches of science into here, like amybe a section for physics, or astronomy, or electronics (after all, at the end of the day, chemistry is really an electrical phenomenon). It would fit the title of the site much better. Otherwise, it should be called "ChemistryMadness," because there's Sooooooooo much more to science than just chemistry.

Or maybe I'm just a raving lunatic asking for too much... Or maybe I'm the Calculus Fairy!
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YT2095
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[*] posted on 6-2-2007 at 09:09


All Science is Chemistry, the rest is just Stamp Collecting :P


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[*] posted on 6-2-2007 at 12:37


As far as I'm concerned, math in general is a means to an end. I know a lot of people that feel differently, but I also know a lot more people that agree with me.

If you want to stay up late in your garage on weekends playing with integrals, go for it...




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[*] posted on 6-2-2007 at 13:04


Excuse me all, but since when is mathematics considered as science? Last time I checked it was still considered a separate knowledge. Science does use mathematics to describe, analyze and quantisize knowledge, but for the same purpouses it also uses language among other things. So, are we supposed to consider literature arts as science as well? Lately there is a tendency to merge all knowledge into "science". If things continue like this we will soon have to accept theology as science!
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[*] posted on 6-2-2007 at 13:17


Quote:
Originally posted by YT2095
All Science is Chemistry, the rest is just Stamp Collecting :P


YT2095 sits back and waits for the hate mail....


The humanities are a subset of humans, which are complex biological systems. Therefore, all humanities are a subset of biology. Biology is a subset of biochemistry, which is a subset of chemistry. Chemicals operate on quantum mechanical principles, which are physical principles. Therefore, chemistry, and all other studies, are a subset of physics.

If you wish to offer a counter-proof that actually *is* a proof, I'd be glad to read it. But this is the only proof that works. Live with it, bitches.

Tim (Physics Major)

:D :P




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12AX7
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[*] posted on 6-2-2007 at 14:34


Quote:
Originally posted by ulysse
I'm still thinking if actually chemistry is involved in ALL the science.The answer isn't coming up,yet.
Hard to find an exception.


Nuclear physics. Mechanics. Relativity. None of these have anything to do with the nature of chemical bonds; therefore, they are not subsets of chemistry! ;)

Quote:
Math is not chem,but chemical process are involved.without math we could not understand chem or anything else.


Math is intimately involved in physics, but due to the complexity of 10^23 or so quantum states available in a relatively small (to a human) amount of matter, chemistry uses approximations and empirical scientific investigation instead. Basic geometry, of course, is still there: it takes so-and-so much to react with so-and-so. This goes in chemistry, electronics, is expressed mechanically by conservation of momentum, economics and other social sciences too.

Quote:
Without the chem process we would not have math.The chiken or the egg?


Well, without chemistry (and physics and astrophysics and philosophy), we wouldn't *be* here to experience these philosophical questions, so I don't think that's a good route to go on. We can debate the existence and use of mathematics, though. It's clear that many things operate on mathematical principles: one mole of baking soda reacts with one mole of vinegar to make one mole of CO2, and so on. Two equal resistors in series make double the resistance, and two in parallel, half. The same amount of weight (or force in general) placed at opposite ends of a bar, equidistant from the fulcrum, will balance. Three equal length line segments set mutually end-to-end will form three 60° angles, and vice versa. Geometry is one of those evident and immutable mathematical principles that pervades all things. Algebra expresses geometry in a written form, more precisely than English or other spoken/written languages can. Calculus expands on algebra's terminology, bringing it into the domain of variability.

Now, as math is developed, it is often applied to problems. Sometimes it arises in response to finding solutions to problems, too. The wider question here is, is "math" something that is always there, that all things obey in some form or another, that we must only discover and develop in order to describe, in a more perfect written form, our observations; or is math something deduced purely from logic, something which, by pure coincidence, is able to describe our observations? This also connects with the concept (I want to say Aquinas said it, but I can't find it) that it is not that science undermines religion, but indeed that God works in logical ways and therefore logic can be applied to it.

Tim




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woelen
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[*] posted on 6-2-2007 at 23:50


Math is a language. This language has proven very succesful in describing natural phenomena. But the funny thing with this language (and in fact any language) is that things can be expressed which are beyond our physical/natural world and the language itself can become a goal on its own. Then we enter the field of pure mathematics.



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pantone159
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[*] posted on 7-2-2007 at 00:40


Quote:
Originally posted by woelen
Then we enter the field of pure mathematics.


Which I like a lot, but I don't know that I would call it science. Science to me fundamentally implies a check against what is observed in the 'real' world. Math is more pure (but beautiful) logic. That's not to put it down, just a definition of terms.

BTW - 'Computer science' (as in programming, not semiconductor theory) is IMHO also not science, for the same reasons.
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[*] posted on 8-2-2007 at 03:35


Breaking everything down to first principles, all can be defined as subsets of physics. Physics encompasses everything from the very large to the very small - astrophysics through chemical bonding through subatomic particles. Even biology (which is really very advanced chemistry of macromolecules, which is advanced physics) breaks back down to physical interactions. Mathamatics is the language which defines all this.

I would argue that computer science is a subset of physics as well. You are programming, but underneath that you have lots of electrons being shifted around a circit board being stored in different places to keep infomation etc.. which is physics.
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[*] posted on 8-2-2007 at 08:50


In pure math one has to think of math as a philosophy as once told to me by one of my profesors at UC Berkeley many years ago as on has to believe that there is a concept we call zero and one..........solo



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[*] posted on 8-2-2007 at 14:10


According to my chemistry prof: "Chemistry is really physics. Physics is really math. Math is really hard."



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