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stoichiometric_steve
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 02:37


PM from Cabalaba to me:

Quote:
What did you do with the trimethoxybenzaldehyde?
Id never buy it from ebay but I was looking in to Roletamide,which can be made from trimethoxybenzaldehyde.

Also, you said you had 2,5-DMPEA, any 3,4- or 2,6-DMPEA?


i never said i had 2,5-DMPEA.

you're a rat. good job ruining everyones legitimate business for absolutely NO FUCKING BENEFICIAL EFFECT.

and he continues like this:

Quote:
I dont use drugs, Im in my 30s. [...] I must be wrong, but I though this was science for science's sake and to continue such an endeavour, we need certain chemicals off ebay.


we need to preserve and advance scientific experimentation by limiting access to materials that are perfectly legal to sell in the first place? right.

you must have been high when you wrote that, or you just lack the intellectual capacity to fathom the consequences of your actions. the latter would qualify you to campaign for trump, maybe that's a career choice you'd want to look into? seems like that would fit very well with your general mindset.

Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  
But now, would you care to explain to the rest of us why you were selling them? Capitalist intentions?


having been a member here for 10 years already, i think "the rest of us" really doesn't want to side with you, so don't assume anyone is backing up the stupid shit you've done.

people sell things for profit in order to make a living, and that may well be a difficult concept for you to grasp.


[Edited on 20-8-2016 by stoichiometric_steve]
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 03:09


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
I use hardware shop drain-opener sulphuric acid at £5/litre
and I use apc pure for reagent grade
https://apcpure.com/product/sulphuric_acid_96

apc pure deliver next day to low volume domestic amateurs like me

High concentration sulphuric acid should not be available to the public (OTC) in my opinion,
I can think of no unique use other than throwing in faces, which is evil.
As an amateur chemist I want no restrictions on what I can buy or own,
but as a member of society there are many many things that I want 'banned'
there are a lot of stupid and/or evil people !

OTOH I think that all 'recreational' drugs should be legalised so that they are safer,
generate taxes and let Darwinian selection run its course.
More harm is done by politicians and greedy corporate management !


[Edited on 20-8-2016 by Sulaiman]


Yes APCpure is very usefull.

Yes there are lots of stupid and or evil people so I agree society must ban some things for mine and our great good.

I too once thought all recreational drugs should be legal. People have been messing with their heads forever, its not going to stop any time soon. We will never win the war on drugs. However for the same reason I don't want to make it too easy for the religious nuts, disgruntled employees, crazy neighbor to have access to explosives, guns or dangerous chemicals some drugs are just too dangerous. While I agree that letting Darwinian selection run its course seems attractive I don't like the collateral damage.

I think cannabis and drugs like MDMA (kills fewer people than paracetamol) should be legal and get really tough on the addictive and dangerous drugs like heroin cocaine tobacco and alcohol (kills more than even motor cars).

PS I thought APC only sold battery strength sulphuric acid. So will not have to high temperature test my cheap distillation glassware.
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NEMO-Chemistry
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 03:11


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
I use hardware shop drain-opener sulphuric acid at £5/litre
and I use apc pure for reagent grade
https://apcpure.com/product/sulphuric_acid_96

apc pure deliver next day to low volume domestic amateurs like me

High concentration sulphuric acid should not be available to the public (OTC) in my opinion,
I can think of no unique use other than throwing in faces, which is evil.
As an amateur chemist I want no restrictions on what I can buy or own,
but as a member of society there are many many things that I want 'banned'
there are a lot of stupid and/or evil people !

OTOH I think that all 'recreational' drugs should be legalised so that they are safer,
generate taxes and let Darwinian selection run its course.
More harm is done by politicians and corporate greed !

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by Sulaiman]


Thanks
APC i use for some things but sulphuric they wont sell to me because I am in a small part of Scotland.

If you live in a city like Glasgow then they will ship, but just about every courier company in the UK use sub contract couriers for my area.

APC wont use subcontractors for some chemicals because they are not properly trained or whatever.

Scotland is a fairly large land mass but we only have 5 million people living here, so all major shops like B&Q are concentrated near the main cities. I live around 4 hours from Glasgow.

No where local (in 40 miles) sells sulphuric acid. I prefer conc acid because it means less storage space and you can dilute to what you want, its safer than concentrating an acid.

Also things like a desiccator its really useful, once its pretty much spent i then dilute it and use it for general stuff.

I dont think throwing acid at people is a good reason to limit sales. As an example in Scotland two idiots shot a 2 year old with a air rifle (there is a news article).

Now in England you can posses or own a air rifle no problem no license. In Scotland a firearms license! So it is now harder to own a air rifle than it is to get a license for a shotgun.

Up here it dosnt take much for the Scottish government to go overboard. we live pretty rural but even when our generator went bang the neighbour 1/2 mile down the road called us to see what had happened!

Shipping makes all chemicals expensive for me :(.

Mine is just an opinion like anyone elses, but mine is biased by the fact the Scottish government overreact more than the English one!

I asked my parents to apply for license for Nitric acid, they were refused. I know of no one who has successfully got one yet.

Banning dosnt work, drugs even those that were legal are now banned. All it has achieved is to put the price up, once the price goes up addicts often turn to crime to pay for them.

I see banning most things as counter productive, if you want to throw acid at someone then break open a car battery, if your evil you will get what you want regardless of the law.

How many people shot in France this year, were shot by people who owned or got the gun legally?

Maybe stiffer penalties for stupid or evil acts is far better than a ban on something

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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stoichiometric_steve
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 04:30


Quote: Originally posted by wg48  

We will never win the war on drugs. However for the same reason I don't want to make it too easy for the religious nuts [...] some drugs are just too dangerous. [...]

I think cannabis and drugs like MDMA [...] should be legal and get really tough on the addictive and dangerous drugs like heroin cocaine tobacco and alcohol [...] .


contradicting yourself quite a bit there, eh?
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NEMO-Chemistry
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 05:52


Drugs is a pointless target. I dont do drugs and have no interest in trying them, i am too young to drink but have tried it. I dont see what people get from drinking, the taste is fucking awful!

Even if you gave 1000 years sentence to everyone caught with drugs you wouldnt stop it. The only reason its banned is because they cant find a way to tax it.

Alcohol in the UK causes more deaths and crime in one year than drugs in 5 years. I am not saying i think they should be legal, i dont have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.

My point was the futility of banning them and spending so much money on trying to control something you cant control.

If people want to get off their heads then a walk in the woods this time of year could do it easy enough with mushrooms.

Walk into a garden centre and buy a peote cactus for £1.50 bingo mescaline apparently!

People openly grow opium poppies for decoration!! I didnt know this until watching the chelsea flower show, i saw one garden clearly with opium poppies growing in it! I know what they look like and i know the cactus stuff not because of the drugs but my love of gardening and plants.

As for chemicals.........what changed between the old days and today? how comes the likes of Bert etal could buy eye openers and now you cant buy basics?

I know my dad was in London on a school trip in the 1970's, he was at the science museum and aged around 7 i think. It was the day the IRA blew up a bomb at the museum while he was there.

His class was the other side and they only heard it with no one hurt. So if terrorism has been around since then why all of a sudden has the world become pussyfied?

My parents talk of childhoods where people helped each other and no one would dream of grassing some one up.

Looks like the world has turned on itself and people have become afraid of shadows.

At school in modern studies we studied political science, ironic that terrorism only seems to work when its feared.

TBH i have nothing useful to add, unless someone has something to say directly to me, so i will leave you in peace on this thread. I am aware everyone has a slightly different view and that is what makes a society, i see no point hammering my views when ultimately all they amount too is an opinion.

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 06:30


Quote: Originally posted by Arg0nAddict  
I just logged on to write what NEMO just said.

Reporting a chemical has the exact effect as selling a chemical which is suspicious. All you are is a cog in chemophic ban wagon which leads to the governmental policies that make no sense. It's a circle how can you not see it bad chemical gets posted bad chemical gets reported bad chemical removed now someone else puts the ad up now fast forward 3 years and eBay had to hire 10000 people to handle the reporting so then then ban sales all together of chemicals as soon as the profit margin hits the tip once it's more of a hassle than profit. And think hard about how many chemicals are sold compared to everything else.

How can you claim not being a rat right after calling up the DEA after your first attempt failed. You're the epitome of a rat. Not only did you tell on the guy you reported him to the DEA. The DEA. What if that guy is a single dad raising 3 kids not only is his income taken but maybe the kids have no dad now.

You have no right to assume the end use of a chemical. It could be used for reference or who knows you can't assume. How many years has the war on drugs been going on and how bad is the drug problem? It's bad. Real bad. And it will never go away until the demand is gone. You can't attack the chemical you need to educate the youth.


a 20g reference? Please, and I only got rid of BDO. so you wouldnt report someone who is harming society? Besides I never had a qualm withe precursors, just BDO. And I rat out a rapist too!

I eBay ignores 7 reports on BDO rim cleaner in 3 weeks, theres a next step.

You wanna ignore dangerous chems, do so. But dont complain when a family member get slipped something at a bar. Just remember that ghetto mentality, let criminals do as they want and complain when its a serious problem.

Not everyone can be trssted to use drugs ssafely, like children. I thought for many nights on how to handle this, but as a member of a society which Id prefer to be even a little safer, made my choice. Its not like go around reporting people to the DEA willy-nilly, eBay ignored me. I could ignore it and think of my younger siblings dealing with BDO or I could try to make a small difference.

Also, read the history of Heroin, it was largely eradicated in the30-40s, the CIA's efforts tot wart Communism brought it back,=. so Technically a drug can be virtually gone from society- take demerol or quualude.

If youre so libertarian now, Id like to see how you feel when you have grandchildrenl

I think you should read my posts, apologizing for potentially affected a guy selling precursors, I didn't want that.

But while he says hes upset to loose the listings, he also proudly said hes glad law enforcement would monitor precursors. What isit, is he upset that he lost money (he wasn't selling a few grams, it was 20-25 and 50g). But I still didnt report him,

And just because people will do coke, doesnt mean we should make it easier to do, especially when sold on a place like eBay, which has the same quality control measures a corner boy has,

I grew up in the crack era in the Bronx. I dont want draconian laws but rather people take stake in their communities, It always starts small. Read some history books.

I have principles, I wont report someone selling a precursor, but there are a minority of drugs I will report, And its strange to say this since I feel like Im being ganged up on, but I do it so we all have eBay for chemicals
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 06:39


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Drugs is a pointless target. I dont do drugs and have no interest in trying them, i am too young to drink but have tried it. I dont see what people get from drinking, the taste is fucking awful!

Even if you gave 1000 years sentence to everyone caught with drugs you wouldnt stop it. The only reason its banned is because they cant find a way to tax it.

Alcohol in the UK causes more deaths and crime in one year than drugs in 5 years. I am not saying i think they should be legal, i dont have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.

My point was the futility of banning them and spending so much money on trying to control something you cant control.

If people want to get off their heads then a walk in the woods this time of year could do it easy enough with mushrooms.

Walk into a garden centre and buy a peote cactus for £1.50 bingo mescaline apparently!

People openly grow opium poppies for decoration!! I didnt know this until watching the chelsea flower show, i saw one garden clearly with opium poppies growing in it! I know what they look like and i know the cactus stuff not because of the drugs but my love of gardening and plants.

As for chemicals.........what changed between the old days and today? how comes the likes of Bert etal could buy eye openers and now you cant buy basics?

I know my dad was in London on a school trip in the 1970's, he was at the science museum and aged around 7 i think. It was the day the IRA blew up a bomb at the museum while he was there.

His class was the other side and they only heard it with no one hurt. So if terrorism has been around since then why all of a sudden has the world become pussyfied?

My parents talk of childhoods where people helped each other and no one would dream of grassing some one up.

Looks like the world has turned on itself and people have become afraid of shadows.

At school in modern studies we studied political science, ironic that terrorism only seems to work when its feared.

TBH i have nothing useful to add, unless someone has something to say directly to me, so i will leave you in peace on this thread. I am aware everyone has a slightly different view and that is what makes a society, i see no point hammering my views when ultimately all they amount too is an opinion.

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]


btw- REPORTING TO THE DEA, WHICH FOCUSES ON LARGE OPTS, isnt the same as imposing long sentances, The DEA directs eBay to control their listings. Id understand and agree if my action led to a prosecution.


And the other things you wrote dont flow well, Im not understanding why you mentioning the IRA when were talking about reporting a small, limited scope of drugs, that wont result in jailtime.

Is there no one who thinks BDO rim cleaner (not lab grade), shouldnt be available on eBay?
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 06:43


Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
PM from Cabalaba to me:

Quote:
What did you do with the trimethoxybenzaldehyde?
Id never buy it from ebay but I was looking in to Roletamide,which can be made from trimethoxybenzaldehyde.

Also, you said you had 2,5-DMPEA, any 3,4- or 2,6-DMPEA?


i never said i had 2,5-DMPEA.

you're a rat. good job ruining everyones legitimate business for absolutely NO FUCKING BENEFICIAL EFFECT.

and he continues like this:

Quote:
I dont use drugs, Im in my 30s. [...] I must be wrong, but I though this was science for science's sake and to continue such an endeavour, we need certain chemicals off ebay.


we need to preserve and advance scientific experimentation by limiting access to materials that are perfectly legal to sell in the first place? right.

you must have been high when you wrote that, or you just lack the intellectual capacity to fathom the consequences of your actions. the latter would qualify you to campaign for trump, maybe that's a career choice you'd want to look into? seems like that would fit very well with your general mindset.

Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  
But now, would you care to explain to the rest of us why you were selling them? Capitalist intentions?


having been a member here for 10 years already, i think "the rest of us" really doesn't want to side with you, so don't assume anyone is backing up the stupid shit you've done.

people sell things for profit in order to make a living, and that may well be a difficult concept for you to grasp.


[Edited on 20-8-2016 by stoichiometric_steve]


Youre either a narc or a drug dealer, and I still feel bad if anyting I did hurt your business, I may not agree with it but I dont feel Im the person to judge youl

ONCE AGAIN, IM SORRY IF MY EFFORT TO REMOVE BDO HURT YOU.
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 08:37


Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Drugs is a pointless target. I dont do drugs and have no interest in trying them, i am too young to drink but have tried it. I dont see what people get from drinking, the taste is fucking awful!

Even if you gave 1000 years sentence to everyone caught with drugs you wouldnt stop it. The only reason its banned is because they cant find a way to tax it.

Alcohol in the UK causes more deaths and crime in one year than drugs in 5 years. I am not saying i think they should be legal, i dont have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.

My point was the futility of banning them and spending so much money on trying to control something you cant control.

If people want to get off their heads then a walk in the woods this time of year could do it easy enough with mushrooms.

Walk into a garden centre and buy a peote cactus for £1.50 bingo mescaline apparently!

People openly grow opium poppies for decoration!! I didnt know this until watching the chelsea flower show, i saw one garden clearly with opium poppies growing in it! I know what they look like and i know the cactus stuff not because of the drugs but my love of gardening and plants.

As for chemicals.........what changed between the old days and today? how comes the likes of Bert etal could buy eye openers and now you cant buy basics?

I know my dad was in London on a school trip in the 1970's, he was at the science museum and aged around 7 i think. It was the day the IRA blew up a bomb at the museum while he was there.

His class was the other side and they only heard it with no one hurt. So if terrorism has been around since then why all of a sudden has the world become pussyfied?

My parents talk of childhoods where people helped each other and no one would dream of grassing some one up.

Looks like the world has turned on itself and people have become afraid of shadows.

At school in modern studies we studied political science, ironic that terrorism only seems to work when its feared.

TBH i have nothing useful to add, unless someone has something to say directly to me, so i will leave you in peace on this thread. I am aware everyone has a slightly different view and that is what makes a society, i see no point hammering my views when ultimately all they amount too is an opinion.

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]


btw- REPORTING TO THE DEA, WHICH FOCUSES ON LARGE OPTS, isnt the same as imposing long sentances, The DEA directs eBay to control their listings. Id understand and agree if my action led to a prosecution.


And the other things you wrote dont flow well, Im not understanding why you mentioning the IRA when were talking about reporting a small, limited scope of drugs, that wont result in jailtime.

Is there no one who thinks BDO rim cleaner (not lab grade), shouldnt be available on eBay?


We wont/cant resolve this one, you live in the states and i live in the UK.

So many things are different and yet the same between the two countries. I mentioned the IRA because in the UK we have had terrorism for many decades, only since 9/11 did things change.

I wont get political and talk about funding etc, but i will say as a whole the attitude to terrorism over there seemed to change after 9/11. This i take from what we were taught in Modern studies.

Drugs and the associated problems have similarities between the countries, but they also have differences. In the states while on holiday i saw nearly no one American in vegas that was falling over in the streets puking.

In the UK goto any town on any friday/sat and even women are falling over drunk puking. So i would argue alcohol is a bigger problem than coke or other drugs here.

Here even weed is a no no, some places in the UK turn a blind eye to small amounts, other areas like where i live have zero tolerance to the point at my school we have a police drugs dog in once a month.

I notice over there some states have legal use weed, something i would agree with if controlled and used correctly, but here it is a chemical substitute and extremely hard to get.

From what i am told and what i hear about my parents childhood things here have changed for the worse, i dont want to see further decline.

You can make fireworks and bangs as much as you like, we cant even buy half decent fireworks now let alone make them.

So a discussion between us is pointless as the situations and problems we face are very different.
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 13:22


I can agree with 99% of what you said.
Though the reporting thing my mom taught me. Living during the wonderland that was NYC in the late 80s, I was taught in extreme detail that normally you avoid getting LE involved but she also made it clear there would be exceptions. We'd ignore murders without knowing it, but grab a phone when a woman screamed. I thought about my action for a while, and though a part of me said dont do it, "youll be a rat" I remembered that history has taught us that unpopular, well thought-out decisions have helped progress society.

I regret collateral damage but notice that stoichiometric_steve couldn''t explain what he thought 50g of mescaline precursor would be used for by the vast herds of people on ebay. He can play dumb but some things up with him.

In one statement he says "My listings of 3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde and 2,5-Dimethoxybenzaldehyde were removed, even though those aren't even listed as hazardous materials and have lower toxicity than table salt."

Then in a PM, he said 'Theres a place for LE, sometimes you shouldnt buy a chemical if it posses a risk.' [Sorry I deleted his U2Us since he was very vulgar, insulting and wenton tangents to prove points that helped my argument]. Like ceiling me a hypocrite for selling chems that arent used in drug manufacturing, it was all he could think of to respond to a rational argument, meaning he didnt have a logical leg to stand on (or just doesnt possess the intellectual capacity to understand the gray areas of life).

He never explained why 20-25 or 50g of those compounds were listed, only came back with insults. That tells a lot about how he thinks (or doesnt), when confronted with incriminating questions, instead he responded by just calling me a rat. Not addressing the question

The fact is where I grew up a rat is always a rat, but thats the wrong way to look at life. How are things to get better when one ignores all wrongdoings,making literally no effort to try to improve things? Although Ive never "ratted" on someone before this nor will I 98% of the time, I do have a moral code, so sometimes it will be something that has to get done when my culture is threatened. The world is full of grey. Somethings reporting wrongdoers is right (like child molestors or people selling date rape drugs)

My efforts never meant to impact anyone other than rim-cleaner BDO sellers, and I deeply apologize if it impacted others. But its unlikely I caused collateral damage since his listings were up for weeks after the BDO came down.

On a side note, Its the DEA's draconian meth policy that make things like sulfuric acid hard to find, its not the people reporting them. In fact a 96-97% listing for sulfuric acid I had was removed, when I appealed, they told me that it was a direct request from the DEA.

In this thread, there was a lot of misinformation, my words taken out of context, or the idea that reporting seller is always wrong even though most of you would report someone selling instructions on how to kidnap, rape, and kill children. Probably because you dont live in that world, but I suspect a child abuser would insist reporting himis ratting him out.

The philosophy that one should always avoid reporting a person has allowed some of the worst atrocities in history to occur. While Id love to not have to report sellers, even some of the large sellers Im close to on eBay thought I did the right thing. If eBay continued ignored things like fake BDO, they'd slowly change their policy making it harder to buy and sell if something they allowed to be sold hurt someone. Phenazepam is a great example of what unfettered sales, going unreported can do, no I technically cant list 500mg of an antibiotic.

Agree or disagree with what Ive done, I didnt do it out of vengeance. A lesser reason was the thoughts of my family members getting hurt, but the main reason I did it so we could all use eBay as-is. I truly believe leaving eBay's chem sellers like stoichiometric_steve to their own devices will do more harm than good. Its one thing to discuss synthsizing drugs, its another to offer the materials needed. However, I wont judge him, there are other uses for those chems (even though he doesn't know or want to tell us).


Finally-
NEMO-Chemistry- I know we may have different views but this is what I expected, a civilized conversation. Thank you for being reasonable and not-insulting. Whether I was right r wrong, these conversations are important for us as a group to have, but the must be done they way you approached it. Addressing specific points, bringing up relevant arguments to counter the other side, carefully reading what the other person writes and responding calmly and rationally

I truly appreciate how you handled this, even though we never hugged and changed each others ideas.

:)

A good member of society shouldnt care about cultural norms more than the well-being of his culture.

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by Cabalaba]
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 13:29


Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  

I regret colllateral damage but notice that stoichiometric_steve couldn''t explain what he thought 50g of mescaline precursor would be used for by the vast herbs of people on ebay. He can play dumb but some things up with him.


at least i can spell.

i'm not obliged anything to explain to you, if you can't think of a legitimate use for any chemical then i don't believe for a second that you're a "neurochemist" at all. you know what? even if every single gram of what i sold would be turned into drugs and consumed, that would make the world a better place than the stuff you pulled off, by far.
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 13:48


Avoiding such questions just further incriminates yourself, this isn't a court either, youre not innocent until proven guilty- thats been your whole premise- making me prove I wasn't wrong. There no right against self incrimination,its only a choice here. Plus if you actually knew the other uses of those chems, what possible reason would you have to not say? [I bet now you'' do a quick google search, but its too late, youve avoided the question for far too long]

And you quoted a U2U showing I do know there are other uses for those chems, did you read them or just twist them to support your own deranged arguments?

I just fixed the spelling, but spelling is much less important than ethics. So Id rather loose a spelling be than not appreciate morality's vast gray zone.

BTW- if my spelling is the best insult you got, you've just insulted yourself. Its ashame youll not know why thats true though.

I genuinely wonder whether chemistry is right for you. Doing good chemistry requires an open mind, a meticulous approach to arguments, and questions one's own notions.But keep doing chemistry and selling drug precursors. We all know how thats going to end.
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 13:59


Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  
Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  


i'm not obliged anything to explain to you, if you can't think of a legitimate use for any chemical then i don't believe for a second that you're a "neurochemist" at all. you know what? even if every single gram of what i sold would be turned into drugs and consumed, that would make the world a better place than the stuff you pulled off, by far.


First, sounds to me likethe incriminating evidence youve avoided, you were selling those chemicals as precursors for scheduled drugs? Dont answer that, I know you'll just lie.

Actually, mentally unstable people (which are up to 10-20% of the US culture, probably higher in drug using subcultures); using those drugs could ruin their lives, which is a far cry from eBay removing a few posts. Plus A GRAM of mescaline or hell, 2c-x, that would put someone in a very serious medical state. Heard of tachycardia, dehydration, rapid and dangerous changes in blood pressure? And god forbid they were in the wrong set or setting.

Get a damn education before wildly making outlandish statements. Also, Youre not the new Tim Leary, stop trying to be him. He made many mistakes he later admitted, like turn on, tune in, and drop out.

Id tell you to read a book but you strike me as a person who goes on gut-reactions, and speaks before acquiring information relevant to a conversation.

Please continue doing chemistry and selling these precursors, just do it, and in 5-10 years we'll see where you end up.

For now, Im not going continue a conversation with someone with a 6th grade education, and 10 year old's ability to reason.

Argue with yourself.

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by Cabalaba]
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 14:06


It may be my age or maybe i am missing the point of scale, but here in the UK i cant see why drugs people would buy any mescaline precursor to actually mescaline??

You can buy the cactus very freely in any (well most) garden centres in the greenhouse sections, the extraction is apparently simple and the cactus regrows.

So if i was a cook i would go the cactus route and save any raised eyebrows. Cactus BTW are one of my favourite plants but the one i have the least success with! The joy of getting a cactus to flower in the UK climate is unbelievable, and the flowers from such a spiky looking plant are beautiful.

Also i dont know but i dont think mescaline use is very large in the UK?? It isnt something you hear much about on the news etc.

What i find interesting is the opinion differences of people from different countries. Apparently (correct me if i am wrong), in the states there are 'pain clinics'. From a documentary some months ago in the UK these seem to be glorified drug dealers using a loophole.

In the UK morphine or opiate based drugs have to be prescribed by your own GP or a hospital, there is no such thing as walk in clinics that will prescribe on the spot.

Again maybe because of my location i just cant see serious cooks using ebay and making drugs like mescaline. Sure some people have drugs factories that get busted, but in the UK the major one is weed farms.

Seems to be that the UK imports most of the other drugs rather than make them, so our differences of opinion in my view are solely based on different situations and the difference in problems that drugs cause in each country.

One example being an addict in the UK is highly unlikely to rob you at gun point for fix, i suspect that is a real probability in the states.

Here the major money getting crime for drugs is shoplifting and burglary, again here you have to make sure the house is empty. Breaking into a house with people inside and stealing something, is a whole other level crime wise with harsher sentences.

So its really hard to compare scenarios in the UK with the same in the states. Interesting topic none the less, like when you guys say goto a pool shop and its like a chemical candy store.

Here in Scotland i doubt there is more than 1-2 pool shops in the country! We dont have the climate for pools and those that do have one would keep many shops in business for long.

Having said that maybe i have identified a niche market! Maybe if i open a pool shop for home chemists...........:D I am only half joking BTW.

As for name calling etc, it isnt my thing. I like to debate but i always try and keep in mind that opinions are like arse holes, everybody has one and a right to have it :D.

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 14:22


Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
It may be my age or maybe i am missing the point of scale, but here in the UK i cant see why drugs people would buy any mescaline precursor to actually mescaline??

You can buy the cactus very freely in any (well most) garden centres in the greenhouse sections, the extraction is apparently simple and the cactus regrows.

So if i was a cook i would go the cactus route and save any raised eyebrows. Cactus BTW are one of my favourite plants but the one i have the least success with! The joy of getting a cactus to flower in the UK climate is unbelievable, and the flowers from such a spiky looking plant are beautiful.

Also i dont know but i dont think mescaline use is very large in the UK?? It isnt something you hear much about on the news etc.

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]


Mecaline ia hard to find here, and the cactus extract causes serious GI problems due other chemicals present. So in the US, at least 15 years ago, I knew people who spent 100$ on a "synthetic mescaline" dose to avoid the vomiting and diarrhea. Not sure what its like now though.

Like you said,different places, different problems.

Good luck on the pool company:)

Actually goodluck with anything you do, though we didnt always agree, youre the type of person I enjoyed arguing with.Thanks again for helping out keeping this insanely long digression on point and amicable. I kept my hobby a secret until I realized people like you were here. I truly mean it, thanks.
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[*] posted on 20-8-2016 at 23:54


Quote: Originally posted by Cabalaba  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
It may be my age or maybe i am missing the point of scale, but here in the UK i cant see why drugs people would buy any mescaline precursor to actually mescaline??

You can buy the cactus very freely in any (well most) garden centres in the greenhouse sections, the extraction is apparently simple and the cactus regrows.

So if i was a cook i would go the cactus route and save any raised eyebrows. Cactus BTW are one of my favourite plants but the one i have the least success with! The joy of getting a cactus to flower in the UK climate is unbelievable, and the flowers from such a spiky looking plant are beautiful.

Also i dont know but i dont think mescaline use is very large in the UK?? It isnt something you hear much about on the news etc.

[Edited on 20-8-2016 by NEMO-Chemistry]


Mecaline ia hard to find here, and the cactus extract causes serious GI problems due other chemicals present. So in the US, at least 15 years ago, I knew people who spent 100$ on a "synthetic mescaline" dose to avoid the vomiting and diarrhea. Not sure what its like now though.

Like you said,different places, different problems.

Good luck on the pool company:)

Actually goodluck with anything you do, though we didnt always agree, youre the type of person I enjoyed arguing with.Thanks again for helping out keeping this insanely long digression on point and amicable. I kept my hobby a secret until I realized people like you were here. I truly mean it, thanks.


Just before i leave this discussion you raised an interesting point.

You mentioned the cost over there of mescaline and the problems associated with the other ingredients in the plant.

We have drug awareness classes in school (yeah it is as boring as it sounds), we have councillors and police etc come and give talks about drugs.

Because i knew about the peote cactus and its availability i asked how much of a problem mescaline use was in the uk, i also asked if they have come across many cactus 'farms'.

What surprised me was the policeman had NO idea what mescaline was let alone the cactus. I explained about the cactus and the drug, the councillor looked the drug up in the BNF book.

His answer was mescaline was an old drug used a very very long time ago in hospitals and it isnt considered a street drug. The policeman confirmed that to his knowledge in my county no one had ever been done for possession.

While you see it mentioned on some sites, here in the UK i dont think its often used at all, i think that mushrooms were/are a much much bigger problem, and even then they are not greatly used because people dont like being sick from them.

So very interesting that it is used more widely over there, is the cactus illegal to own or posses? Here you were allowed to posses certain mushrooms but you were not allowed to consume them!

They have changed the law now so you cant poses, but its a waste of time. In Scotland i am surrounded by forest as its one of our biggest industries, a walk in any one of them would keep you flying for a life time!

Ironically the only mushroom i actively look for is chicken of the woods, i have not found a single one in Scotland! Maybe because we mainly have soft woods here.
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[*] posted on 21-8-2016 at 06:37


Alright kids, sorry, but this shitfest is over. Another one to the bin.



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