UncleJoe1985
Hazard to Self
Posts: 88
Registered: 30-9-2008
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How to get Methyl Ethyl Ketone (Butanone) in California or suitable alternative?
Anyone know how to get MEK so I can try to fuse a head phone band that snapped? This is for expensive 7.1 surround headphones.
I'm in California and I can't find MEK anywhere since the ban. I can't order online either since most retailers are aware of the ban. 
If I can't get MEK, then what could be some alternatives for dissolving hard, thermoset plastics so that they can be joined?
I don't understand what's so bad about MEK?
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
DCM might work ?
|
|
|
UncleJoe1985
Hazard to Self
Posts: 88
Registered: 30-9-2008
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The advantage of MEK is that it's much less volatile than acetone, so it has more time to penetrate. In that regard, CH2Cl2 is even worse than
acetone, so I doubt it's a suitable replacement.
| Code: |
boiling point (C) vapor pressure (kPa)
acetone: 56.1 30.6 @25C
MEK: 79.6 10.4 @20C
DCM: 39.6 57.3 @25C
|
Did you try joining plastic using DCM yourself? I tried soaking the broken joint in acetone for 10 minutes and hoped that it would penetrate and make
the plastic gooey, but it didn't at all. Maybe volatility doesn't matter and only a different solvant will work.
I'd be willing to give DCM a try, if I can find it. Unfortunately, it seems quite unpopular too these days.
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6218
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organised
|
|
Plumbers PVC cement contains a significant amount of MEK -- at least around here it does. You could try distilling that. (And if it does not contain
MEK then it quite likely contains something else that will do the job.)
|
|
|
UC235
National Hazard
Posts: 565
Registered: 28-12-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If acetone did nothing to the plastic, MEK won't either.
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yes, I first used DCM (unknowingly) as a kid in glues for model airplanes. It works really well. Also melts the plastic very efficiently if you put
too much...
Then, when I got more into chemistry I used it as a solvent for extractions. Of course, by then I had recognized the smell.
I think the last repair I did with DCM was on a toothbrush to show off 
I cant be certain that it would work on your plastic though. I dont think any of the plastics I used it on were thermoset / resins.
j_sum's comment made me think that around here THF is used in PVC glues. I might be mistaken but I think I also encountered it in paint strippers.
That might be agressive enough for your needs but I suspect it'll be even harder to find :-/
|
|
|
careysub
International Hazard
Posts: 1339
Registered: 4-8-2014
Location: Coastal Sage Scrub Biome
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lowest quantum state
|
|
Yes, PVC and ABS cements contain THF.
Oakey Regular Clear Cement, as formulated for California, contains:
Methyl ethyl ketone 25-40%
Cyclohexanone 10-25%
THF 10-25%
Acetone 5-15%
Polyvinyl chloride 5-15%
The Medium Clear Cement is:
THF 30-50%
Acetone 10-25%
Methyl ethyl ketone 10-25%
Polyvinyl chloride 12-20%
Cyclohexanone 10-20%
Fumed Silica 5 1-5%
The ABS Cement is:
Methyl ethyl ketone 30-60%
ABS 15-40%
Acetone 10-30%
The PVC and ABS they dissolve in the cement is a bit annoying if you aren't using it to glue those exact materials.
Only a little 2-butanone/MEK is needed for this purpose, so you can order that from Elemental Scientific for $5.99 (plus shipping) for 4 oz.
You can also get 30 mL pure THF on eBay for $9 shipped.
[Edited on 22-11-2016 by careysub]
About that which we cannot speak, we must remain silent.
-Wittgenstein
Some things can never be spoken
Some things cannot be pronounced
That word does not exist in any language
It will never be uttered by a human mouth
- The Talking Heads
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2531
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
Instead of MEK, I've used a mixture of acetone and toluene (I don't remember the exact ratio, but it was around 5:1) for solvent welding ABS plastic.
The more toluene there is, the longer it takes to cure.
|
|
|
vmelkon
National Hazard
Posts: 669
Registered: 25-11-2011
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: autoerotic asphyxiation
|
|
I buy my Methyl Ethyl Ketone (2-butanone) at Canadian Tire, 1 L is 12 or 14$.
Want some?
Signature ==== Is this my youtube page? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA5PYtul5aU
We must attach the electrodes of knowledge to the nipples of ignorance and give a few good jolts.
Yes my evolutionary friends. We are all homos here. |
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
CareySub-
Could you take a look at the contents of PVC and CPVC CLEANERS, rather than CEMENTS?
Or point out your source for the % content given above?
These cleaners are usually available with a dye to show inspectors that cleaning was done, but some are available without dye as well. I assume they
are a similar solvent to the cements, as they seem to be dissolving a bit of the surface
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
Daffodile
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 7-3-2016
Location: Highways of Valhalla
Member Is Offline
Mood: Riding eternal
|
|
Uh sometimes the finish for sailboat hulls has significant amounts of MEK mixed with MEKP
|
|
|
careysub
International Hazard
Posts: 1339
Registered: 4-8-2014
Location: Coastal Sage Scrub Biome
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lowest quantum state
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Bert  | CareySub-
Could you take a look at the contents of PVC and CPVC CLEANERS, rather than CEMENTS?
Or point out your source for the % content given above?
|
Here are the products I find listed for sale in California:
Oatey Purple Primer for CPVC, PVC
SDS Product code 1402EP
Acetone 25-40
Cyclohexanone 25-40%
THF 15-30%
Methyl ethyl ketone 15-30%
Oatey Clear Cleaner
30795
Product code 1400C
Methyl Ethyl Ketone 40 – 70%
Acetone 40 - 70%
Oatey Purple Primer Cleaner
30769
Product code 1401E
Acetone 70-100
Cyclohexanone 1-5
Oatey Clear PVC Primer
60465
SDS Product code 7402E
Acetone 30-60%
Cyclohexanone 15-40%
THF 10-30%
Methyl ethyl ketone 10-30%
Oatey Clear Primer
30751
SDS Product code 1402E
Acetone 30-60%
Cyclohexanone 15-40%
THF 10-30%
Methyl ethyl ketone 10-30%
To find out what Oatey has for sale I looked up the Oatey products at a California Home Depot store, then looked up the product codes in the Oatey
site SDS finder, looking at the US listed SDS's.
The first two listed is the most interesting and actually the most widely available it seems.
[Edited on 24-11-2016 by careysub]
About that which we cannot speak, we must remain silent.
-Wittgenstein
Some things can never be spoken
Some things cannot be pronounced
That word does not exist in any language
It will never be uttered by a human mouth
- The Talking Heads
|
|
|
UncleJoe1985
Hazard to Self
Posts: 88
Registered: 30-9-2008
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
OK, I've tried Oatey all purpose cement and it didn't do any better than epoxy or super glue. I even soaked a piece of the plastic in it for an hour
and it didn't soften up.
But I did find the solution: 3D printing! I just got an ANET A8 and used it to print some reinforcements and it works almost like new. Earlier, I was
using Locktite self fusing repair wrap, but it wasn't rigid enough.
This gives me a lot of ideas. Imagine 3D printing industrial chemical apparatus like fractional distillation columns. Maybe not, since ABS is hardly
chemical resistent, it will have to be lined with something that is like PTFE (which can't be 3D printed because it decomposes).
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3022
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
I see you found your solution, but for futher reference; chloroform works like a charm. It soaks into the plastic fast and then takes quite long to
cure giving the plastic the chance to fuse.
[Edited on 17-1-2017 by Tsjerk]
|
|
|
Fluorite
Hazard to Others
Posts: 132
Registered: 26-12-2018
Location: United Arab Emirates
Member Is Offline
|
|
If i bubble methyl chloride through acetone would i produce MEK?
I know methyl chloride react with benzene to make toluene and much cheaper than the iodide
|
|
|
Antigua
Hazard to Others
Posts: 155
Registered: 27-9-2020
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Fluorite | If i bubble methyl chloride through acetone would i produce MEK?
I know methyl chloride react with benzene to make toluene and much cheaper than the iodide |
There's a huge difference between methylation of aliphatic compounds and the Fiedel-Crafts alkylation. Please look into those two before asking such
simple stuff.
|
|
|
macckone
International Hazard
Posts: 2159
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
Two notes. If the plastic didn't soften in oatey products then it is likely PE.
Although it is possible to soften PE with solvents it isn't very effective for bonding.
A heat gun would work better.
Also there are PTFE 3d filaments, but they aren't straight PTFE.
They have to be used with good ventilation due to off-gassing.
But FEP is more commonly available.
|
|
|
arkoma
Redneck Overlord
Posts: 1761
Registered: 3-2-2014
Location: On a Big Blue Marble hurtling through space
Member Is Offline
Mood: украї́нська
|
|
new Swamp cooler spiders USED to come with MEK to glue them together. Dial brand.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
|
|
|
Fyndium
International Hazard
Posts: 1192
Registered: 12-7-2020
Location: Not in USA
Member Is Offline
|
|
California sounds like another EU.
Can you ban it? If yes, it shall be banned.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
