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Author: Subject: Pyrophoric Al for reduction
fastbre4k
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[*] posted on 18-12-2016 at 14:00
Pyrophoric Al for reduction


Hey, i had an interesting thought.

What if i prepare Aluminiumoxalate and heat it in an N2 floatet beaker or whatever - in the pyrophoric aluminium that forms - i pour some Ethanol with example nitrostyrene - than i toss a magnetic stirrbar in and then add some acidic acid.

Is there not a chance of reduction potential to reduce to amine? Then we coult toss away the damn Hg
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[*] posted on 18-12-2016 at 14:24


"What if i prepare Aluminium oxalate and heat it "
You will get aluminium oxide.
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[*] posted on 18-12-2016 at 14:31


Quote: Originally posted by fastbre4k  
Hey, i had an interesting thought.

What if i prepare Aluminiumoxalate and heat it in an N2 floatet beaker or whatever - in the pyrophoric aluminium that forms - i pour some Ethanol with example nitrostyrene - than i toss a magnetic stirrbar in and then add some acidic acid.

Is there not a chance of reduction potential to reduce to amine? Then we coult toss away the damn Hg
Welcome to Sciencemadness.org yet-another-supposedly-New user !

I once had an interesting thought too.

Can't quite remember what it was.

Edit:

There is no 'we'. Please speak only of what You have done.

Appoligies in advance if you are a PHD in Chemistry attempting to engage with the uneducated populace by sharing Advanced Insights into reduction.

[Edited on 18-12-2016 by aga]




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fastbre4k
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[*] posted on 18-12-2016 at 15:09


Ok there is no 'we' - i am german and not so educated in english. By the sentence i mean that a person who want to make an reduction of this type (if this works)dont need any Hg.

Sure that the only product of heating aluminiumoxalate is aluminium oxide?
In case of beeing sure - why does aluminiumoxalate just form aluminiumoxide

And ironoxalate produce ironoxides ,CO,CO2 and pyrophoric black iron?

If anyone know a procedure for making pyrophoric aluminium please let me know.
Ive heard if al balls milled to powder in a closed vessel - pyrophoric al would form.

Why you use 'yet another supposedly new User'?



Ok this should be the right section for me :D

[Edited on 18-12-2016 by fastbre4k]

[Edited on 18-12-2016 by fastbre4k]
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JJay
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[*] posted on 18-12-2016 at 15:36


There are a lot of metals that can't be reduced with carbon. These include alkali metals, alkali earth metals, and aluminum: http://www.patana.ac.th/parents/curriculum/chemistry/units/L...

For metals that can't be reduced with carbon, pyrolyzing the oxalates will give you oxides.

Note: This might actually not be the case at extremely high temperature in a stream of inert gas to remove any oxygen that happens to form in equilbrium, but you may have aluminum carbide as a side product.

Edit: changed "nitrogen" to "inert gas"



[Edited on 19-12-2016 by JJay]




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[*] posted on 18-12-2016 at 15:43


Al can be used in some reductions. The problem with Al will always be Al2O3 which passivates the surface. You are right to suggest keeping Al from the air will limit this, but good luck trying - especially with a fine powder and especially with oxalate as your starting material. Aint gonna happen for reasons unionised explained.

Welcone to SM. aga is right that a bit of experimentation and some reading always beats random speculation. That is how SM works. The most productive discussions happen as we.together reflect on experimental results in the light of published theory. But in this case I think your speclation will lead to a dead end. I recommend looking at ways that Al has been used effectively in reductions and develop your ideas from there.

edit
air not sir.
(darned thumbs on phone.)

[Edited on 18-12-2016 by j_sum1]




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[*] posted on 18-12-2016 at 16:08


The temperatures required to drive off the oxygen would certainly far exceed the melting point of aluminum, so you wouldn't end up with a powder.



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[*] posted on 19-12-2016 at 04:09


Ok, Zincoxide is reduceble with carbon - so i guess with zincoxalate i can give it a go
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[*] posted on 19-12-2016 at 05:23


Except Zinc freaking turns into a GAS at the temperature of reduction. So maybe not... The first people to make Brass smelted calamine right in with the Copper, and had not even seen Zinc as the free metal.

Whee! Which metal should we do next???




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[*] posted on 19-12-2016 at 09:30


OK we should now try Nickel :D - Nickeloxalate forms Nickel,Nickeloxide and CO,CO2 at the beginning of 280°C - hotplate just got more than 360°C

than we got this: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/cth.nitro2amine...

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[*] posted on 19-12-2016 at 09:51


Quote: Originally posted by fastbre4k  
OK we should now try Nickel :D - Nickeloxalate forms Nickel,Nickeloxide and CO,CO2 at the beginning of 280°C - hotplate just got more than 360°C

than we got this: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/cth.nitro2amine...

There is no 'we' in this context.

Just you, a random idea posted on sciencemadness, and a few replies.

First you should actually try something yourself to see what your idea does.

If that notion does not appeal, why are you posting on an Amateur Chemistry website ?




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[*] posted on 19-12-2016 at 10:16


What is your problem aga? I thought you knew some German? Who cares how he refers to the world?

Do you really have to be so frustrated to new members every time? This new member comes here to get some information to do some experiments and you are just short of telling him or her to bugger of.

Besides, you don't do much experiments either besides burning bread. I really like what you did with those trophies, but please stop being such a high flying wannabe king of the forum while constantly wining about practical work being done or not.
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fastbre4k
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[*] posted on 19-12-2016 at 10:18


you have misunderstood - i not actually mean that any user should help me with my "experiments" in form that anyone go to his lab and try it - It's just a joke by "we" that's why an Smiley occours - i think it's becouse i am german - i have not expected such an strictly handling of words.



[Edited on 19-12-2016 by fastbre4k]
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[*] posted on 19-12-2016 at 11:01


It really doesn't matter who "we" is, or whether the OP knows English well, or whether or not aga is a tool.

Bottom line is, the OP is a new user who is clearly trying to make amphetamines and we don't tolerate that here, so either way, this is going to detritus.




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