| Pages:
1
2 |
j_smith
Harmless
Posts: 10
Registered: 15-11-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Concentrate ethanol?
What's the best method to concentrate 95% ethanol (as in Everclear) up to ~98%? I only need about 2 liters for a fulminate synthesis...
I've got access to a pretty well-equipped lab, but it would be up to me to purchase any necessary chemical supplies, so nothing exotic, please.
|
|
|
enhzflep
Hazard to Others
Posts: 217
Registered: 9-4-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Firstly, isn't that % about the range of the azeotrope?
Second, why would you bother? You're adding it to a solution of (less than)70% nitric acid and mercury nitrate. I never did anything with store bought
solvent grade(as in denatured to prevent drinking) ethanol except add the mercury nitrate/nitric solution to it.
"Only" need about 2 litres for a fulminate synth . My memory's a little hazy on
this, but don't you get something like 1/10 (or more) the weight of ethanol back as MF?
|
|
|
Furch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 130
Registered: 8-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Try refluxing the ethanol with magnesium turnings and magnetic stirring, till all the magnesium has reacted (either turned into visuable salt crystals
or gone into solution as Mg2+). If you use an excess of magnesium, this procedure should remove denaturating agents such as ketones too - they are
converted to the enolate with Mg2+ as counter ion.
Per kilo of denatured ethanol (approx 1.25 liters) you have 50 grams of water, that's roughly 3 moles... Magnesium has an atomic mass of about 24 u,
times 3 makes about 75 grams, divided by 2 (one Mg atom interacts with two molecules of water) makes about 40 grams, with a couple of grams for good
measure.
Reflux about 60 grams of mangesium with 2 liters of the denatured ethanol, then distill. Left in the distilling flask should be Mg(OH)2.
- Furch
[Edited on 8-12-2006 by Furch]
[Edited on 8-12-2006 by Furch]
|
|
|
Furch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 130
Registered: 8-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Also, don't forget using a drying tube containing anhydrous calcium chloride or the like on top of the reflux condenser.
- Furch
|
|
|
turd
National Hazard
Posts: 800
Registered: 5-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | | Try refluxing the ethanol with magnesium turnings and magnetic stirring, till all the magnesium has reacted (either turned into visuable salt crystals
or gone into solution as Mg2+). If you use an excess of magnesium, this procedure should remove denaturating agents such as ketones too - they are
converted to the enolate with Mg2+ as counter ion. |
Will not work. There's a book called "Purification of laboratory chemicals" with the correct procedure.
|
|
|
Furch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 130
Registered: 8-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Will work.
This is a well established laboratory procedure for preparation of absolute ethanol, or "super dry ethanol".
Reference: "Vogel's practical chemistry".
- Furch
|
|
|
turd
National Hazard
Posts: 800
Registered: 5-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hogwash. Magnesium doesn't react with 95% ethanol. Read that reference again and more carefully this time.
|
|
|
Furch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 130
Registered: 8-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I'm sorry to say that I don't have Vogel's at hand right now...  However a quick
Google search shows that elemental magnesium can indeed be employed as drying agent for ethanol.
Anyway, I'll get back to you after I've read that particular passage in Vogel's more carefully again - possibly with an apolagy!
Sincerely,
Furch
|
|
|
XxDaTxX
Hazard to Self
Posts: 66
Registered: 12-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I wouldn't call 3A molecular sieves "exotic" would you?
Mg the prep you speak of produces >99% and is only used for things prepping sodium reduction solvents, but one usually starts from 99%. The
formation of enough alkoxide to dehydrate 2L of 95 ..... well that would produce quite a bit of hydrogen. If you've done it before you'd choose the
sieves as well.
[Edited on 8-12-2006 by XxDaTxX]
|
|
|
Furch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 130
Registered: 8-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I'm sorry... I don't see the problem with formation hydrogen gas? Just ventilate...
I don't consider molecular sieves exotic either... Though if I had to compare, I'd say they are more exotic than magnesium turnings.
|
|
|
XxDaTxX
Hazard to Self
Posts: 66
Registered: 12-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Like I said .... you have to start with 99%. The point about H2 was just if you could hypothetically kickstart your reaction, it would create more
than normal amounts of gas being that you started from 95% and you want to do a whole 2L.
Furthermore, you must usually activate the Mg before the alkoxide forms, even starting with freshly delivered 99%.
Also, what would you rather do? Mg, add a little EtOH, activate, warm, wait for H2 evolution to subside, add remaining EtOH, reflux, distill, and
remove bases that came over
.... or throw some molecular sieves in and take a nap?
[Edited on 8-12-2006 by XxDaTxX]
|
|
|
Furch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 130
Registered: 8-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well... To answer your question, I would have to say that I'd rather use magnesium turnings... As I don't own molecular sieves 
Anyway, as you seem to have the strongest will and rethorical skills, molecular sieves seem to be the best way to go about the problem.
Sincerely,
Furch
|
|
|
j_smith
Harmless
Posts: 10
Registered: 15-11-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks for the replies
First thing, Everclear is not denatured. It is sold as an alcoholic beverage...people actually drink it! So no need for the Mg route...
Second, and best part, a colleague loaned me his 3A molecular sieve. It's some sort of synthetic zeolite. All I can say is WOW. Simple, easy, cheap
(LOL). I had no idea of that particular application drying ethanol. You could even use corn meal as a sieve!
|
|
|
Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
|
|
As a side note I am also impressed with molecular sieves. I dried my homemade diethyl ether (made from 95% ethanol) to a point good enough for a
Grignard reaction. I used 4A sieves and believe that they not only removed the water but also any unconverted ethanol.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
|
|
|
XxDaTxX
Hazard to Self
Posts: 66
Registered: 12-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by j_smith
First thing, Everclear is not denatured. It is sold as an alcoholic beverage...people actually drink it! So no need for the Mg route...
Second, and best part, a colleague loaned me his 3A molecular sieve. It's some sort of synthetic zeolite. All I can say is WOW. Simple, easy, cheap
(LOL). I had no idea of that particular application drying ethanol. You could even use corn meal as a sieve! |
The kicker is .... REUSABLE. You're welcome.
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3022
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
And that kicker is even more a kicker if you have experience with drying molecular sieves. It's to simple, just trow it in an oven at 90 degrees an
wait. In just an hour its dry.
I ones had 15 grams of 3A sieves which were a little bit wet (mostly methanol) and within 45 minutes it reduced to 10 grams. They turned from brown to
a colour which was more a dark coloured white. I got them from a bottle of absolute dry methanol and I wanted to use them for drying THF.
[Edited on 9-12-2006 by Tsjerk]
[Edited on 9-12-2006 by Tsjerk]
|
|
|
j_smith
Harmless
Posts: 10
Registered: 15-11-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That's the best part. Not only CHEAP, but
REUSABLE!
I love chemistry 
|
|
|
cbfull
Harmless
Posts: 33
Registered: 24-6-2006
Location: OH
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
In the past when I was researching the subject the suggested reagent was calcium oxide (also called quicklime). I don't know where to get it other
than chemical suppliers but it reacts with the water irreversibly to calcium hydroxide, and requires re-distillation.
You could probably try calcium sulfate (drierite) or even baked magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) for that matter.
Another method might be to use silica gel (the non indicating variety, cobalt is toxic) if the wet ethanol is cold. I say cold because the silica gel
tends to absorb the water rather quickly generating much heat and causing the gel pieces to crack apart as it absorbs too fast. To remedy this you
might start with silica gel already wetted with DRY ethanol, and slowly add the 95% ethanol with stirring to avoid exposing the gels to too much water
too fast.
Just an idea but I bet it would work.
|
|
|
cyberzed
Harmless
Posts: 31
Registered: 23-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Absolute, or 99.5% water-free, Ethanol is frequently necessary in many organic operations. It is quite easy to prepare from the azeotrope with water
such as "Everclear" brand grain alcohol, "moonshine" or "Rectified Spirits" (an old term for the same thing).
Dehydrate 75g of fresh anhydrous Calcium Oxide in a vacuum dessicator for 24 hours (a bit redundant, I know) or heat in an oven at 200C for 2 hours,
then immediately transfer to the vacuum dessicator until use. Setup glassware for simple refluxing with a water-cooled condenser and a Calcium
Chloride guard tube. Place 350mL of Ethanol into the flask, quickly add the Calcium Oxide and hold at gentle reflux on the water bath or heating
mantle for 6 hours. Allow the mixture to stand overnight, then distill off the alcohol, discarding the first few mL (it may be more convenient to just
vent the condenser to the atmosphere for the first couple of minutes after distillation has commenced). Yield should be better than 315mL. Store the
absolute Ethanol in a tightly closed glass container as it will pick up water from the air rapidly.
Calcium oxide can be prepared by heating Calcium Carbonate to a temperature above 825°C where it wil liberate CO2 and form Calcium Oxide.
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Fresh quicklime is likely to be a better dessicant than a vacuum dessicator. It willalso rapidly pick up CO2 from the air at 200C so I think you would
be better off not bothering to try to dry it.
|
|
|
MadHatter
International Hazard
Posts: 1332
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying retirement
|
|
Dehydrating ethanol
People who distill ethanol for fuel often run it through anhydrous rock salt. This is my
preferred method. Do it and redistill the liquid to remove any traces of NaCl.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
|
|
|
evil_lurker
National Hazard
Posts: 767
Registered: 12-3-2005
Location: United States of Elbonia
Member Is Offline
Mood: On the wagon again.
|
|
3A sieves rule supreme for drying ethanol.
On Ebay you can get 5 pounds capable of absorbing 15%+ of their weight in water for around $30.
No mess. No fuss. Chunk in. Let sit for a few days. Pour off. Your done. No need for redistillation.
|
|
|
EmmisonJ
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
does anybody have any information on using corn meal as a sieve to dry out 95% ethanol to 99% ethanol?
aside from this http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_grits.ht...
|
|
|
EmmisonJ
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
ah, found this http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4868346/description.html
|
|
|
Elawr
Hazard to Others
Posts: 174
Registered: 4-6-2006
Location: Alabama
Member Is Offline
Mood: vitriolic
|
|
Anhydrous CuS04 will also work, but I'm uncertain of solubility of Cu++ in etOH so distilling afterward might be prudent. It is easily prepared by
heating the pentahydrate to 200 C until all the blue color is gone, and you are left with grey-white ashlike powder.
1
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
