tsathoggua1
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gas bottles
Cylinders of liquefied gases are, aside from the smaller bottles of N2, Ar and CO2 available through welding stores, one of the few things I have
difficulty obtaining from suppliers.
Anybody know where to obtain larger (not talking lecture bottles, but stand-up full sized tanks) cylinders of Cl2, HBr, H2, NH3, MeOMe and O2? (oddly,
my local welding store, doesn't stock oxygen, which quite surprised me given the commonality of oxyacetylene welding)
All of these I can of course generate to order. But its a nuisance that I'd much sooner avoid, and in the case of catalytic hydrogenations, often
higher pressure than can be supplied with a mere Al/NaOH reaction and dessication of the gas. And far bigger argon tanks than those small welding
cylinders would be nice, too for that matter. Ever had one run out during the middle of a Na electrolysis and find your backup is almost empty
[Edited on 6-2-2017 by tsathoggua1]
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Armadillonx
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What size of tank are you using currently? I havent had much issue with the larger welding tanks(200 ft^3) as far as running out. I would be using a
valved manifold for swapping tanks out as needed.
Oxygen you should be able to get from a welding supply, or medical supply. Aside from that I am not sure.
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Dr.Bob
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Most small or larger towns have at least one, and most more, gas or welding places, it is not hard to get a tank of O2 or Argon, they are so common.
I know lots of people with personal tanks of those. If you get a tank and need a regulator, I have a few I can sell. Just make sure to use the
right one for O2.
But they might want to know what you are planning for a Cl2 or H2 cylinder, and NH3 is being more regulated due to meth labs using it. MeOMe is
being used as a diesel additive/replacement, so it must be out there somewhere, but never seen it used in a lab environment. Not sure where you
could even use that much HBr, it is rare to find in a large cylinder except for special purposes.
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tsathoggua1
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The local welding stores, neither have O2. Argon I can get but I'd like a proper, large tank. Something that can be lugged, not carried in one
hand
And if I want NH3 (anhydrous) it is not beyond my capabilities to prepare, or liquefy. I would simply prefer a tank, so as not to have to use the
phosphate salts, not to have to waste CaO or set up bar running the tubing, setting up the scrubbers and cryo bath.
Convenience, and speed, to generate and liquefy all that anhydrous would take a long, long time. And Cl2 is easy to produce, obviously, and dry. But
again, convenience. Its preferable to have at my disposal as much as required, without having to mandatorily pack dessicants, produce it, and waste
the reagents to do so. Would sooner shell out for tanks, than do it manually.
The H2, for catalytic reductions using plad/plat-cat, raney nickel or Urushibara metals.
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aga
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Quote: Originally posted by tsathoggua1  | Anybody know where to obtain larger ... cylinders of Cl2, HBr, H2, NH3, MeOMe and O2? ...
All of these I can of course generate to order. But its a nuisance |
Please give details of HOW you would "generate to order" for each gas.
We get a lot of people coming here just Saying things and Doing nothing.
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Texium
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | | Quote: Originally posted by tsathoggua1 | Anybody know where to obtain larger ... cylinders of Cl2, HBr, H2, NH3, MeOMe and O2? ...
All of these I can of course generate to order. But its a nuisance |
Please give details of HOW you would "generate to order" for each gas.
We get a lot of people coming here just Saying things and Doing nothing. |
Why aga? All of these are pretty
trivial...
Please stop trying to find things to complain about.
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tsathoggua1
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O2-electrolysis of H2O, for example, or reduction of oxidizing agents of certain kinds, But H2O2 would be the prime example, and that is one thing
that due to the word 'peroxide' in its name would be likely to see me severely victimized and my lab ransacked and trashed, wanton destruction,
medical abuse, physical abuse (such as for example, whilst knowing I was in such physical pain due to desperately needing a piss and when wrongfully
arrested the time it happened, deliberately keeping me held in an outside holding area, doubled over in pain. Until I lost it and warned them let me
the fuck in the nick NOW, or suffer the consequences. The bastards did not let me into the abbatoir, saying 'oh we need permission to enter', I was at
this time so in need of a piss, having been prevented from using a toilet (with two exit doors, and no windows, no ingress or egress route short of a
shaped charge or a battle tank applied to a wall or ran through it.. and it was plainly obvious I had nothing on me bar pocket change, a cigarette
lighter, possibly my tobacco and papers, unarmed and cuffed, I MIGHT possibly have had something as offensive in nature as my anti-seizure medication
upon me, but if they were afraid of then they had not to leave it on my person whilst I relieved myself, and kept me in this holding pen outside for
what must have been at LEAST a half hour, after a journey across the city in which I live to its far side, when theres a pig shop five minutes distant
in a car perhaps.
So I warned them, politely, but factually, of what I would do if denied further, because it had no option but to exit, and I am not about to piss
myself to satisfy some bullying pricklords. I told them if not allowed immediately, after waiting, in severe pain, barely able to walk, that the
choice was a toilet, or their pig car. If they acted to ensure access to the former, the peace would be kept, if not, then I would let it out all over
their pig van. Or if they approached me whilst doing so, I'd turn and piss all over either or both of them, any of them that approached me physically
would be pissed all over.
They wouldn't let me use the bog, knowing I was in severe pain due to urinary retention by this time. So I made it over as fast as possible to the
meat wagon, after whipping my cock out, and let loose the lot, all over their pig van. Taking my special sweet time to aim and hose down underneath
and upon the door handles, especially that on the front passenger and driver's side door handles. The back with the cage that only arrestees would
enter was the only one not pissed over. the door handle. Because I didn't want to subject them to my fury and bodily waste, since innocents such as
myself can be arrested just as much as can rapists, paedophiles, child killlers, granny batterers thugs and murderers. Even the tyres got some, and as
best I could aim, without lying down and making myself vulnerable, as much as I could get into the exhaust pipe. Sadly I couldn't get the fuel tank
cap open. Or I'd have loosed off in there too.
They stood there, and watched. Aghast and with a look of shock on their faces. They obviously didn't believe me to be a man who does what he says he
will do, when he says he will do it. Just a 'spacker' and 'spastic' (apologies for putting those words to print, they sully my tongue and fingers that
type them, but the filth have called me those and others. Quietly, when nobody else would hear. 'Fucking retard' For instance. And nobody the fucking
hell calls me, or anybody else a spacker or spastic; nobody. My brethren and sistren in neurotype in irony and humour is one thing, in certain places
where that shit flies, and the rule of law is 'give what you take or get dogpiled by everybody who takes umbrage' although I paraphrase. That and the
obvious important things for a forum such as not to directly threaten the working of the site, such as host TOS complaints, no paedophillia, no
threatening of violence or worse in meatspace, but otherwise, anything flies, just so long as if you can give it you can take what you give when you
get it in return from they whom are given 'it' and for that matter, any and all other users who take the position of either side.
There such vile words are used, like 'nigger' by black folk amongst black folk, we own them rather than allow them to be used as sticks to beat us.
And...spazz and proud of it. But no fucking copper calls me a fucking spastic/spacker and gets away with it. And I'd not tolerate my race being abused
so either, Dyscalculic, I may be. But I'm autie and proud the fuck of it. So I'd no more stand by and watch another autie, an aspie, a rett's girl
being called a 'pillow angel' to quote one particularly foul term The Lady Rettdevil herself had told me she'd heard used of other Rett's girls (shes
a chimaera due to skewed X inactivation and incomplete penetrance of the MECP2 mutation
And is far from wheelchair bound, NV (most of the time), or retarded mentally (or physically, hell, I'd beg her for the honour of being the one to
give her children and devote my existence to bringing her joy in an attosecond, she's physically fit, a gymnast, likes tombstoning off cliffs, teaches
special needs kids 'tumbling', a kind of gymnastic type physical exersize, she is extremely intelligent, funny, quick-witted an intellectual and
neurodiversirty activist with a lethally sharp-edged snark on her when it comes to tackling curebies. The kind of thing that is elegant and amazing to
witness in action. The kind of girl who could kill with a snark-off headshot at a thousand yards and doubletap the curebie victim in the shame- filter
from point blank range with a hollow-point brutal put-down that'd make your blood run cold, if a curebie and make the teeth curl and your eyes bulge
until they burst from your head in shock. A beautiful thing to witness. The angel of death in snark form. Not to mention my god she is physically the
kind of drop-dead elegantly sexy, gorgeous and outright knockout of a lady. There's only one rettdevil, and my god, she is special alright. She could
flashboil iridium with that snark-off of hers and with so much as her wonderfully shaped, slim, long, elegant flappy, stimmy hand's little finger do
the same to my blood by sight alone. One fucking cool girl is The RettDevil I
know. I know, its blatantly obvious, I'm in love and want her babies. But I cannot help that nor would I do so if I could. And there goes my
occasional failure in suppression of my hypergraphia/hyperlexia. ahem...she does have that effect on me)
Anyhow, pork did not believe me, so I did exactly what I told them I'd do. And that wasn't an isolated incident of extra-judicial abuse. Before, long
before then, I've had my pets killed, had to rebuild the lab from scratch several times, refused aid when threatened with being knifed by a thug who
had gone into a social services building and started kicking off, on camera, yet claimed 'oh we wouldn't respond to that since there aren't any
cameras outside'. Brick to my head from another thug 'common assault, nothing we can do', having my kneecap and head stamped on and being left for
dead, 'common assault, nothing we can do', likewise having my head split open (no bones broken, just badly mauled, as a kid/young teenager) by a
thrown rock. By somebody who's name and locale were known, and the identity certain, the rock in question possessed and not even a crime number.
This has been going on a long time, and many, many many cases of abuse. False arrest and witholding food and water for two days and a night. Likewise
withholding medication, trying to use this to coerce a confession from me to what they were accusing me of, when such a confession would be a lie.
Arresting and charging me for acting to PREVENT a violent crime by disarming somebody swinging a bat in the street wantonly targeting property such as
cars. They knew I had not done those acts, but having taken the weapon and removed it from his possession in order to prevent his further carrying on
his spree of stupidity 'possession of offensive weapon' charges pressed and stuck. Left without legitimately scripted opioid strong painkillers for my
knee joint which never recovered from that plus an accident, that left me nearly crippled without permanent analgesia at high levels, leaving me
without antiseizure drugs of the GABAa agonist type until I went into withdrawal severe enough to cause me to have a seizure.
Apologies, for the somewhat rant at the end. But this fury has been a long time in the venting. Sooner or later, you stamp upon an innocent man enough
and he will howl. Sooner or later the tortured will crack and tell of an act he did not commit, if it gets him taken off the rack and untied from the
stake he is to be burnt at as a witch, figuratively speaking. Bastards are lucky it is not in my nature to employ violence without extreme
provocation and need for defense of myself, another who is loved/cared for, or an animal.
Walked around it slowly, pissing up and down the whole vehicle, as high as I could reach after doing the door handles.
The rest-H2-Al/NaOH, or reaction of hydrides if the H2 needs to come from a hydride transfer source, although I am unable to generate H2 at the high
pressures a tank would service me with.
Cl2? electrolysis of NaCl, or other alkali metal chloride, or in the cold, electro-less, pot perm or other oxidizer and HCl.
HBr? acid of suitable strength upon an alkali or alkaline earth bromide salt with a non-oxidizing acid. Passage of the gas through dessicant if
required. Same as I'd generate HCl or HI. And bubble gas through whatever is required most probably, according to the specifics of the situation for
rxn at STP. If I needed to attempt a pressurized rxn I'd have to use a liquid-phase rxn such as HBr/GAA in a threaded, stainless steel pipe, probably
given either an inner coating of potash glass via decomposition of sprayed potassium silicate solution and pyrolyzed to fuse it into glass. Or
electroplating with a metal resistant to HBr but that wouldn't intrude upon the rxn in a negative way, sealed pipe, heat for requisite duration and
allow to cool to room temperature before the apparatus was approached and opened.
Dimethyl ether I'd use the williamson ether synthesis probably. More difficult than the rest to generate as a liquid due to its intended purpose as a
cryogen and cryogenic solvent, as well as running it through condenser jackets. Can get small amounts as liquid cryogenic wart remover, but those
bottles are tiny and expensive, way too small for my purposes.
For NH3 (wet) a solution of an alkali metal hydroxide and an ammonium salt. The stronger base displaces the weaker, and for instance, ammonium
phosphate/NaOH(aq, minimal water>plenty NH3 gas driven off. For anhydrous in the gaseous state, mixture of CaO and a phosphate, a SMALL amount of
H2O added to initiate the rxn, the CaO cannot, unlike M-OH where M is a group 1 metal hydroxide, generate H2O upon rxn with the quicklime, which in
and of itself acts to dry the ammonia as it forms, pass NH3(g) through further CaO dessicant tube if required, if wanted liquid, run through dry
ice/acetone bath and pre-cooler of ice-salt-CaCl2 with methylated spirit-diethylene glycol mixture.
But, faced with the likes of having to use reagents that you could better use for other desires, according to your personal whim and desires at the
time of production and use, what would you rather do? be forced to perform such setup and wait time, expend reagents, or invest in proper tanks,
regulators and pressure gauges for the gases in question and turn a tap, from which dry gas of high quality, or liquid anhydrous ammonia from an
inverted tank, again, with great care)
Argon I I freely 'admit' I cannot simply produce on demand. And I buy my argon in the bottle sizes, albeit small such as are available to me.
It forms compounds only with the most violent of reaction conditions, or solid matrix laser irradiation type syntheses of miniscule quantities of
exotic compounds such as argon fluorohydride. Excluding clathrates of course. But then even helium can form things like van der Waals molecular
dihelium, or clathrates (I believe so on the latter, I didn't bother to check up just to avoid being called a liar)
If you want to accuse me of 'say and not do' then have some evidence.
Hows about my piperazine (organics, acylation/alkylation of a diamine) thread. Ask a certain supplier who recently posted a new list of reagents for
sale, by PM, whether I bought the requisite cinnamyl chloride and butyric anhydride and the prices I paid for those reagents)
(to that seller, those two reagents, and those two alone, you may confirm or deny. You may not give my personal details other than confirmation or
denial of purchase and receipt and you are perfectly free to name the price I paid)
Is that a price that somebody who wants to sit there and look at them as wall ornaments all day going to pay?
Or is that just piperazine and dye? or just dye in H2O?
Think, before you call me a liar. And unless you have compelling reason then still your tongue, for I should not myself have to go to the effort to do
so.
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tsathoggua1
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That was in reply to aga. Thank you ZTS16.
Apologies others, including ZTS if necessary but I've been having a shit day, I'm tired, I'm sleep deprived. And I do NOT take kindly to being
effectively called a shitspeaker for no valid reason.
[Edited on 7-2-2017 by tsathoggua1]
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