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clearly_not_atara
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Is helium available near you? It's much more common than nitrogen at the consumer level since it's used to fill balloons; try party stores. Definitely
not cheap, though.
You can use p-aminophenol instead of sulfamic acid to generate nitrogen. P-aminophenol is notable because it can be formed by hydrolysing paracetamol,
which I'm certain that you have access to. You do still need NaNO2 though.
paracetamol + NaOH >> p-aminophenol + NaOAc
p-aminophenol + NaNO2 [pH 7] >> p-hydroxybenzenediazonium >> hydroquinone + nitrogen
Note that the p-hydroxybenzenediazonium salt is light-sensitive and should not be isolated or concentrated too much in solution as violent
decomposition is a risk. However I think it is less likely to kill you than H2.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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At clearly_not_atara,
It will not work the way you think it will...
Para-amino-phenol when diazotized will form a relatively stable diazo-oxide...see the vast DDNP tread into the energetic section and specifically iso-picramic acid diazotation
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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NEMO-Chemistry
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Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  | Liquid to liquid...then simply avoid any gas....only use liquid boiled water for example (almost O2 and N2 free...and sterilized)...use a seringe
filled with that water to displace the fluid in front of it to the other location and on the other side use another empty seringe and pump the
liquid...simple liquid transfert.
[Edited on 15-2-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone] |
Sorry I was totally unclear in what I was saying. I need a head space of around 25%, but I can start with a completely filled container and push the
liquid out. That would leave me with a space at the top filled with my non oxygen gas.
it is done now..........Wine shop Argon, and one 250ml flask with Hydrogen at the top.
This gives me a few weeks to revisit Nitrogen, if the cultures take. Next step is the one I am reading up on now, how to isolate into single cultures.
From the papers I read it sounds like a hypo pushed into the medium (test tube agar). A sealed glove box would be very handy, but easier said than
done.
I think I will have to try some of the other methods mentioned though, some interesting ideas for making Nitrogen.
Shame about the paracetamol, I think they might allow you a couple of tablets of that in the UK!
I kid you not though, Ebay is the aspirin and paracetamol place, shops here are restricted to something like 16 tablets at a time! plus you have to be
18 (16 by law, but shops want over 18 ID).
They blame the EU laws, but here in the UK we seem to enforce the EU laws to the letter. I thought coming out of the EU (if it happens), would solve
the problem, but I think we are going to keep all the existing laws.
Well except the ones that help people I guess. Sorry if thats a bit political, I feel a bit cheated when I read what some of you can get in shops
easily.
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Cezium
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anaerobes, slaughterhouse, cattle... smells like anthrax to me, or maybe c.botx?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry |
Shame about the paracetamol, I think they might allow you a couple of tablets of that in the UK!
I kid you not though, Ebay is the aspirin and paracetamol place, shops here are restricted to something like 16 tablets at a time! plus you have to be
18 (16 by law, but shops want over 18 ID).
They blame the EU laws, but here in the UK we seem to enforce the EU laws to the letter. I thought coming out of the EU (if it happens), would solve
the problem, but I think we are going to keep all the existing laws.
Well except the ones that help people I guess. Sorry if thats a bit political, I feel a bit cheated when I read what some of you can get in shops
easily.
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Don't tell lies or propagate stupid rumors...it has nothing to do with EU...and must be only UK related...
Here in Belgium center of the EU, you can buy in pharmacy-shop paracetamol or aspirin (last week I bought one box of 120*1g paracetamol pills at
11,5€ (120g for 11,5€ that is fair) and 40*0,5g pills of Acetyl salycilic acid (aspirin) thus 20g for about the same price)...no ID card
requested.
I needed this to start experimenting with iso-DDNP and picric acid to make picramic acid and normal DDNP.I want to work on related explosive
diazo-oxides and nitranilic acid....I will try to get some unmade to date bis-diazo-dinitro-phenoxide.
Only study...no terrorist act.
[Edited on 16-2-2017 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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DrP
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He's not lying about the availability - you can't buy more than 2 packs of pain killer at the CO-OP. I do not know if it is the law or if it is just
their policy. He say's that 'they' told him it was the EU law - maybe 'they' were wrong, idk, I'd have to look it up, but being honest I am not too
worried about it. There is nothing to stop you buying 2 packs and then going back 5 mins later for more.
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
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Tsjerk
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What are you talking about? Any cattle you would extract anthracis from would be a heap of pussing dead flesh. Ever seen an anthrax infection? Not
very pleasant. For this species you look in grasslands, not in cattle.
Clostridium botulinum also makes no sense, as cattle infected with it won't make its way to the slaughterhouse. I think it was pretty clear from the
start the OP is talking about methanogens.
Please don't accuse people of growing bio-weapons if you don't know what you're talking about.
Edit: and since when is B. anthracis anaerobe?
[Edited on 16-2-2017 by Tsjerk]
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Cezium
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Such hate from ein deutschman. I haven't accuse anyone, just saying what these words evoke to me. I am sure that you can get both spores in cattle
slaughterhouse. Havent seen anthrax infection in vivo, just held petri dish once.
facultative anaerob
[Edited on 16-2-2017 by Cezium]
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NEMO-Chemistry
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There you go
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1325.aspx?categoryid=73&subc...
16 pain killers from a supermarket and 32 if you buy from a chemist! Dr P apparently is actually law!
And post 2 I would have thought made it clear what I was doing!
" Just as a side note.................
I had always Assumed that cows fart methane, so obvious place to looks for bugs is cow shit. Months of failure looking for the bug I wanted made me
turn to vet books, as I am sure you lot know cows actually belch more Methane than they fart.
Significance? Well the bug I was after is at the opposite end, so its taken ages to get a culture that wasnt dead.
And no this isnt actually about making Methane, its about a particular bug thats all (One i cant spell!)."
Its a simple methane experiment, based on the fact I found out cows burp more methane than they fart. So the microbes are a bit different in the first
two stomachs........No point repeating the thread. I havnt spread any misinformation, the restriction of most chemicals are EU directives, the UK is
apparently the only place that actually applies the laws though.
So paracetamol being a chemical....makes sense to me to be a EU rule, Aga can buy most chems in a flower shop, but he is in the EU. As I said its
mainly the anal UK that takes it to extremes.
Oh and in case someone else needs the info..... I found another source of Nitrogen, Some tyre places will fill a inner tube for you, not too sure why
tire places have Nitrogen, but the tyre place near to us has it. The guy did a kids swimming ring for me free.
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DrP
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Cheers Nemo.
Seems you are right - they ignore these laws in Brussels then? lol - we enforce every one... which is probably why people voted Brexit. I personally
voted to remain, but the attitude of giving people a bollocking everytime they complain about an over enforced law or complain about something is
probably what alienates them and forces them to ignore the positives too. I have a few issues with some of the EU laws... and if I bring them up in
front of anyone who voted to remain they start shouting, but I voted to stay all the same and would do again. See how you get accused of lying and
spreading rumors for stating something that is just simply true. No wonder people want away from that school teacher style oppression. Shame it lead
the ignorant masses into revolt.
\"It\'s a man\'s obligation to stick his boneration in a women\'s separation; this sort of penetration will increase the population of the younger
generation\" - Eric Cartman
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wg48
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I assumed the sale of paracetamol was regulated by the EU. Apparently a false assumption probably caused by my personal experiences in France and the
UK.
See https://occup-med.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12995-...
“Accessibility of the pharmaceuticals paracetamol however is not regulated by European law but by national law”
“Various EU countries permit prescription-free sales of paracetamol in pharmacies and non-pharmacy stores. In Sweden paracetamol 500 mg may be sold
in both pharmacies and non-pharmacies in a maximum pack size of 20 units. In the United Kingdom (UK) paracetamol 500 mg is listed in the general sales
list with a maximum pack size of 30 effervescent tablets or 16 tablets. In Ireland paracetamol 500 mg may be sold in a maximum pack size of 12 units
in a non-pharmacy. In the Netherlands paracetamol 500 mg is legal to be sold in a maximum pack size of 50 units in a drug store and with a maximum of
20 units in any other non-pharmacy. Several countries in the European Union are permitted to offer paracetamol prescription-free in pharmacies and
non-pharmacy stores without legal guidance on the storage position within the store.”
Gone are the days when you could buy a bottle of 250 paracetamol BP tablets for a about a couple of pounds.
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Tsjerk
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| Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry | There you go
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1325.aspx?categoryid=73&subc...
I havnt spread any misinformation, the restriction of most chemicals are EU directives, the UK is apparently the only place that actually applies the
laws though.
So paracetamol being a chemical....makes sense to me to be a EU rule, Aga can buy most chems in a flower shop, but he is in the EU. As I said its
mainly the anal UK that takes it to extremes.
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Do I get you right saying the paracetamol restrictions are EU and the UK enforcing those regulations? I think your link makes it quite obviously clear
this is a UK law as the EU didn't exist in 1968.
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wg48
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Below is the most recent UK law required to comply with EU law on controlled and reportable chemicals. Does not cover drugs like paracetamol.
I have only quoted the explosive precursors and poisons checkout the link for the others.
From https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosi...
"1.1 Regulated substances and concentration thresholds
Explosives precursors:
hydrogen peroxide:12% w/w
nitromethane: 30% w/w
nitric acid: 3% w/w
sodium chlorate: 40% w/w
potassium chlorate: 40% w/w
sodium perchlorate: 40% w/w
potassium perchlorate: 40% w/w
Poisons:
Aluminium phosphide
Arsenic and its compounds (other than calcium arsenites, copper acetoarsenite, copper arsenates, copper arsenites, lead arsenates)
Barium salts (other than barium sulphate, barium carbonate and barium silicofluoride)
Bromomethane
Chloropicrin
Fluoroacetic acid, its salts and fluoroacetamide
Hydrogen cyanide and metal cyanides (other than ferrocyanides and ferricyanides)
Lead acetates and compounds of lead with acids from fixed oils
Magnesium phosphide
Mercury and its compounds (including: nitrates of mercury; oxides of mercury; mercuric cyanide oxides; mercuric thiocyanate; ammonium mercuric
chlorides; potassium mercuric iodides; organic compounds of mercury which contain a methyl group directly linked to the mercury atom)
Oxalic acid: 10% w/w
Phenols (phenol; phenolic isomers of the following: cresols, xylenols, monoethylphenols); compounds of phenols with a metal, 60% w/w of phenols
or, for compounds of phenols with a metal, the equivalent of 60% w/w of phenols
Phosphorus yellow
Strychnine and its salts and its quaternary compounds
Thallium and its salts"
[Edited on 16-2-2017 by wg48]
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Amos
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My god, they're restricting phenol (all phenols!?) and... anything greater than 10% oxalic acid? On what grounds?
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wg48
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| Quote: Originally posted by Amos | | My god, they're restricting phenol (all phenols!?) and... anything greater than 10% oxalic acid? On what grounds? |
I guess the phenols are environmentally problematic. They where banned at least for home use years ago in wood preservatives (UK).
I do wonder why oxalic acid.
Look at the other lists ammonia, potassium and sodium hydroxide phosphoric acid !!!
Read the link for the fine details.
[Edited on 16-2-2017 by wg48]
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NEMO-Chemistry
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Ok its a UK law, It dosnt matter much to me who made the law. Even in the Uk we dont have parity of law within the UK, some things legal in England
and Wales are not legal in Scotland.
It isnt a Joke any more, getting it wrong has serious consequences. ALL meta data is kept in the UK, if you are suspected of anything they can
remotely say is terror linked, then you in a different ball game. I dont know all the rules, so some of the following might be inaccurate in some
details.
But here if your arrested under suspicion of a terror related charge (say some banned chemical that can go bang), I could be hauled off without the
right to see anyone (including a solicitor) for several weeks. They dont even have to inform anyone they have me.
I would hope thats reserved for the extreme end of things, but the little I know on the subject seems to imply it covers any terror related suspicion.
OK I was wrong about paracetamol being a EU rule, but it hardly matters to me who made the rule.
I look at America and see you complain about the glassware laws, here you make a bang in your garden and it often dosnt end well. This isnt supposed
to be a political thread, I only made the point about paracetamol because the assumption is everything is easy to get here. And yes to some extent I
can get 200 paracetamol, but equallu if I was old enough to drive, I could also drive drunk.
The point being I try and avoid serious trouble. Oxalic Acid I might have, and in England your likely to get told off, here in Scotland it isnt so
forgiving. You cant even have a single Beer here and drive any more........
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BobD1001
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Why not simply buy canned argon they sell for preserving wine and paints? In the US here they sell one called "Bloxygen" and another called "Private
Reserve". Both are basically just canned argon, usually with a small balance of Nitrogen designed to blanket the wine or paint, and create an barrier
from oxidation.
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by BobD1001 | | Why not simply buy canned argon they sell for preserving wine and paints? In the US here they sell one called "Bloxygen" and another called "Private
Reserve". Both are basically just canned argon, usually with a small balance of Nitrogen designed to blanket the wine or paint, and create an barrier
from oxidation. |
Sorry that bit got buried  , I did say above I got some argon from the wine
making shop.
But I also mentioned wanting to try out some of the other ways at some point (purely for fun). I went off topic a bit when paracetamol was mentioned.
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clearly_not_atara
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@NEMO: damn that sucks, but I don't see anything on there restricting the freedom of a consumer to stockpile paracetamol. At some point you have to
bite the bullet and pay cash at a few different stores to get what you need... no, it's not legal, but neither is ~anything requiring an inert
atmosphere and done without a license
Do you have a ref for that? Diazo compounds tend to be more stable when there's an EWG (including nitro) cf. diazoacetic acid and derivatives, or
diazodiphenylmethane. I definitely looked up some refs regarding the decomposition of p-hydroxyphenyldiazonium including these:
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/v03-088#.WKe...
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.378...
[Edited on 18-2-2017 by clearly_not_atara]
[Edited on 18-2-2017 by clearly_not_atara]
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Read the DDNP tread all you can wish for is inthere.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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NEMO-Chemistry
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| Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara | @NEMO: damn that sucks, but I don't see anything on there restricting the freedom of a consumer to stockpile paracetamol. At some point you have to
bite the bullet and pay cash at a few different stores to get what you need... no, it's not legal, but neither is ~anything requiring an inert
atmosphere and done without a license
Do you have a ref for that? Diazo compounds tend to be more stable when there's an EWG (including nitro) cf. diazoacetic acid and derivatives, or
diazodiphenylmethane. I definitely looked up some refs regarding the decomposition of p-hydroxyphenyldiazonium including these:
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/v03-088#.WKe...
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.378...
[Edited on 18-2-2017 by clearly_not_atara]
[Edited on 18-2-2017 by clearly_not_atara] |
I didnt know messing with bio digester's needed a license, then again I assume most forms of microbes are now controlled. Yes I could tock pile, but
in a small town with 4 shops that sell it, dosnt take long to get noticed, especially if you also want aspirin.
They do the right thing and report it, the police turn up and find paracetamol, so no big deal. Then they find the Conc Nitric acid etc and all of a
sudden it is a big deal.........
I think it was Woelen a while back, who said he was kinda giving up experimenting at home. Methane etc satisfies my curiosity for science, chemistry
in the true sense is becoming out of reach.
Maybe when I am older I can move to a country where your not seen as a threat, but simply as someone who wants to learn.
Its a shame we didnt get to find out what happened to blogfast, I respect his privacy, but the info would have been a useful gauge as to how bad
things currently are.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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BF will make a report soon...it is a matter of days or weeks.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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NEMO-Chemistry
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Thank you for letting us know, I have a feeling his information will be of great interest to those of us in the UK. I also have a nasty feeling it
will be full of things we are not going to want to hear.
Still kind of beggars belief he even had his door knocked on.
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