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Nixie
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[*] posted on 28-12-2006 at 18:28
Fish euthanasia


A goldfish went up the gravel vac tube and by the time I managed to shut it off, both eyeballs got sucked out of their sockets. The fish is appears otherwise undamaged, but I fear it will starve as it's too slow finding food by the time the others eat it up (nostrils are of limited use because of strong current from the filter).

I'm considering euthanizing it. The two most common methods I've come across are a) anesthetize with clove oil then add alcohol, but I don't have clove oil, and b) benzocaine HCl, which I also don't have. I do, however, have benzydamine HCl and I'm wondering if that'll also work painlessly.

By the way, jokes about feeding the goldfish to my cat are not welcome. It may happen in the wild, but the salient difference is that this is my fish rather than a fish, and I've come to care about it.

[Edited on 29-12-2006 by Nixie]
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Maya
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[*] posted on 28-12-2006 at 20:04


Sad, so sad......... my condolences.


My sharktail commited fish harikari yesterday by jumping out of the tank onto the floor


my advice is to give him a proper toilet funeral as all fish deserve




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Ozone
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[*] posted on 28-12-2006 at 20:18


My condolences,

We used to use an anaesthetic called Finquell to euthanize fish in the lab, but this stuff, also known as M-222 might be hard to get. Following that, there seems to be something to the clove oil bit--but, an emulsifier is required. Here is a link to a forum where milk (do not use EtOH, it causes the fish pain) was used as the emulsifier:

http://p103.ezboard.com/fthegoldfishandaquariumboardfrm13.sh...

Best wishes,

O3




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Nixie
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[*] posted on 28-12-2006 at 21:45


Maya, I hope you didn't mean flushing the fish down the toilet while it's still alive. That just makes it fast and easy for me, not the fish with chlorine burning its gills.

I've decided to see over the next few days if it will manage to eat food and stay clear of infection. Who knows, it might make it so I'll give it a chance. But I tell you, it looks nasty because black moors have enormous eyeballs and the empty sockets are most of the size of the head... now you can see light diffusing from the opposite eye socket through the thin separating tissue in the middle...
I already have another damaged fish, an oranda that scratched its eye which was subsequently sucked out by a dojo loach...

There are small strings of tissue streaming from the eye sockets. Should I cut them off or let them rot off/other fish eat them?
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Twospoons
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[*] posted on 28-12-2006 at 22:10


Would freezing work? Its supposed to be a humane way to kill crayfish / lobsters - as opposed to dumping in boiling water.



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Nixie
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[*] posted on 28-12-2006 at 22:21


I guess dropping into ice water would be nearly instant, as goldfish are pretty sensitive to thermal shock.

Lobster is quickly killed by driving a wide blade knife straght down into the cross indentation on the back top of the head. It's a distributed nervous system so the need for a large blade to make a long cut. If you put them in the fridge for 20 minutes they become very lethargic and then it's easy to do that procedure. I never had the heart to put a lobster alive in boiling water...

But that's food, whereas I don't want to deal with goldfish blood and guts... I'm grossed out enough cutting the bloody steaks from the store.

I'm still wondering about whether benzydamine HCl will work as well as benzocaine HCl. Both are analgesics and are chemically related substances.
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Maya
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 04:22


Yes Nixie, definitely put him on a block of ice or else in the freezer , that way he will feel no pain. 'Tis no way for a fish to live unfortunately. I would fix the fishtank ASAP.
If you have a yard or garden then make use of it if not too cold otherwise it'll be alright to flush him after he is frozen

Again my deepest condolences on your loss :(




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Blind Angel
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 07:24


I'm supporting the freezing water way, that's the way my brother was using with his fishes (vs. my idea of using cyanide). It's way more simple and will give you the same effect (non-painfull death)



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garryb
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 07:30


I'm no expert, but in the UK it is quite common for goldfish ponds to freeze in winter, yet goldfish survive until spring provided they have not frozen completely solid - of course the water under the ice layer is not quite 0 degrees Celcius, but it is presumably not far off in a cold winter, so I'm not sure that cold water as such will kill the goldfish - or is it the intention to chill the fish then kill it by other means? Or perhaps a sudden immersion in icy water (as opposed to the gentle drop of a natural winter) is lethal?
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 08:57


Putting wodka in the freezer and putting the fish into icecold ethanol solution might be another idea. The ethanol will subdue it and the cold will finish the job...



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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 09:36


Shotgun!

it won`t feel a thing, I promise you :)




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Maya
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 09:42


You can't really mean that can you???

That is so cruel:(, This poor creature has undergone a terrible experience and now you wish to subject it to torture? Unbelievable!!:mad:




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Niels Bohr
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 10:18


Try FETM
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12AX7
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 17:20


How do you figure? Seems to me exactly like the guillotine: a rather gruesome method, but assuredly instantaneous and without sensation (if it works properly, as some monarchs have been unfortunate enough to experience otherwise).

Along similar lines of morbidity, anything that causes instant disfigurement to the nervous system is going to do it. Smash the head with a hammer, etc.

In terms of chemicals, how do fish respond to ether or chloroform? Chloral?

Tim




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UnintentionalChaos
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 20:46


Do you put a tiny rag with chloroform over the fish's gills while it's swimming around? :P I doubt you have any cyanide salts around, but a spoonful of those in a small fishbowl would probably give the quickest, least painful death possible. For a human a small pill would take a few minutes. To a fish, the cyanide would pass directly into the blood through the gills (think HCN to humans) and would be much faster acting due to the small size of the fish. I'm no biologist/biochemist but that seems like a plausible effect to me.

[Edited on 12-30-06 by UnintentionalChaos]
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Nixie
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 22:02


Haven't put it down yet. It seems to have recovered from the shock and is swimming around with surprising obstacle avoidance. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be able to find the food at all. Maybe it's the dry food doesn't have much scent, or maybe the olfactory system has been destroyed by the suction, and I don't know if it can recover and thus whether it would be worth it to feed it manually.

[Edited on 30-12-2006 by Nixie]
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Waffles
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[*] posted on 29-12-2006 at 22:07


Quote:
Originally posted by Nixie
both eyeballs got sucked out of their sockets.


That is the stuff of horror movies. Yeeeesh.

Cheapest for you + easiest + least painful is probably putting the alcohol (ethanol or vodka) in the freezer for a day, and putting the poor thing in.

The quickest and most certain is probably the cyanide method- that is the way I would personally do it if I were in as horrible a situation as you are. On the other hand, that's because I have lots of cyanide salts sitting around.

Or you could just wait for the creature to become an aquatic Hellen Keller?




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[*] posted on 31-12-2006 at 03:15


You all are a little crazy .... Just dump down the toilet .... Or you really care about their feelings and kinda shit ? Maybe you are vegetarian ?
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Nixie
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[*] posted on 31-12-2006 at 04:22


It's simple -- it's a pet. If you had a sick dog, would you throw it in the sewers alive?
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[*] posted on 31-12-2006 at 08:55


Arguably, a dog is a more advanced animal than a fish. . .



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[*] posted on 31-12-2006 at 11:01


Eh, I think it's a bit off topic to give opinions on what is and what is not important to a person in terms of pets. Sure, a dog is more advanced than a fish, but if I've had that fish for 5 or 10 years, I'm going to want that fish to live or at least die comfortably.

I'd go for the freezing if you decide to have a fish euthanasia. It seems like the Carp family doesn't survive well in those temperatures, so it should just simply go into a slower metabolism until it finally drifts off into a painless death.




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[*] posted on 31-12-2006 at 11:03


You say you want a non-painful death? You should have just killed it with a hammer or any other quick and simple way after the accident. Talking about torture you are torturing him already with big wounds in the face. The faster you execute it the less it will be tortured. I imagine I'd want to be killed right away after my eyes are sucked out, as the eyes are one of the most painful parts of the body.
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Blind Angel
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[*] posted on 31-12-2006 at 14:17


Yup, but the nerves are already broken so no more sensation on that side. Final note: go for the cold.



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[*] posted on 31-12-2006 at 15:24


Bah.

Blenderize it.

Death in .02 seconds., nerves won't have time to react.
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[*] posted on 31-12-2006 at 15:55


Huh? There's a pair of points you've clearly missed evil.

Firstly, nerve impulses travel in the human body at roughly 400kmh, which is 111.1 m/s. Assuming a comparable rate in fish, this would be equivalent to 2.22 meters in 0.02 seconds.

Secondly, which part/s of "It's simple -- it's a pet." or "this is my fish rather than a fish, and I've come to care about it." was too hard for you to understand?
This isn't 10 years ago, and it's certainly not Iraq. Putting live animals through machines designed to chop and pulverise doesn't exactly fit the definition of euthansia.

Sorry to hear about your impendinding loss Nixie. We had the heater thermostat croak it one night. The next morning the house smelled like a fishmarket on the 3rd day.. Poor little guys. Lost about 8 loaches, an Angelfish and a Catfish that night. They weren't even my pets and I felt terrible for them. I don't envy the position you find yourself in now a single bit. At least in my case they were already departed by the time I found them.

[Edited on 1-1-2007 by enhzflep]
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