Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Copper(II) acetate triarsenite synthesis questions/help
Hi all,
I wanna tackle something really fun next, some Paris Green (copper(II) acetate triarsenite) synthesis. So I would really appreciate if anyone has
experience with this stuff, come on down! I would love some help with this, its sorta the weirdest thing I've started to make. My only concern is I
can't seem to find anything online about making the stuff, other than a one line wikipedia entry and a resource to a book that I can't find anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_green#cite_note-1
"Paris green may be prepared by combining copper(II) acetate and arsenic trioxide"
That's all I've found, however I haven't really looked for experiments in the past, so any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Edit: fixed title typo
[Edited on 4-17-2017 by zts16]
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Where do you plan to get the arsenic? Seems like a difficult thing to find these days. My girlfriend got me some elemental arsenic for Christmas; she
lucked out and found some on eBay from Czechoslovakia!
I'm sure that to everyone else in the world, your girlfriend buying arsenic looks a little suspicious 
Edit: I just saw your other thread about getting it from Onyxmet.
[Edited on 4-17-2017 by MrHomeScientist]
|
|
|
solitanze
Harmless
Posts: 26
Registered: 4-2-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You can occasionally find this substance on eBay. Other than that it is pretty hard to come by.
"Copper(II) acetate was historically prepared in vineyards, since acetic acid is a byproduct of fermentation. Copper sheets were alternately layered
with fermented grape skins and dregs left over from wine production and exposed to air. This would leave a blue substance on the outside of the sheet.
This was then scraped off and dissolved in water. The resulting solid was used as a pigment, or combined with arsenic trioxide to form copper
acetoarsenite, a powerful insecticide and fungicide called Paris Green or Schweinfurt Green."
The LD50 for man is around 1,5 g for a 70 kg person. I wouldn't worry too much.
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
HAH, Well I found some on Onyxmet here: http://onyxmet.com/?route=product/product&filter_name=Ar...
It's Arsenic III Oxide, and I am not sure if I need need this, or metallic Arsenic. It looks as if they have a variety of substances, that range from
the fun to the stupid.
There are two things I wanna know how to find, syntheses and state laws regarding arsenic. Mostly they seem aimed at combating clandestine but the
last thing I want is police questioning me about this stuff!
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by solitanze  | You can occasionally find this substance on eBay. Other than that it is pretty hard to come by.
"Copper(II) acetate was historically prepared in vineyards, since acetic acid is a byproduct of fermentation. Copper sheets were alternately layered
with fermented grape skins and dregs left over from wine production and exposed to air. This would leave a blue substance on the outside of the sheet.
This was then scraped off and dissolved in water. The resulting solid was used as a pigment, or combined with arsenic trioxide to form copper
acetoarsenite, a powerful insecticide and fungicide called Paris Green or Schweinfurt Green."
Thanks, when I made Copper Acetate a few months ago, I did so after finding out it was also a widely use pigment. I found this too, on the wikipedia
page, but again that article is paywalled off.
I also found out, that I could make either Paris green, by combing it with Copper Acetate, or Scheele's Green, by combining it with Copper Sulfate.
The LD50 for man is around 1,5 g for a 70 kg person. I wouldn't worry too much. |
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sorry I thought I made a reply last time buy I guess I didn't. I am not worried about Copper Acetate, its pretty easy to make. Im worried about
finding the Arsenic Trioxide, and extra precautions I may/may not be equipped for.
| Quote: Originally posted by solitanze | You can occasionally find this substance on eBay. Other than that it is pretty hard to come by.
"Copper(II) acetate was historically prepared in vineyards, since acetic acid is a byproduct of fermentation. Copper sheets were alternately layered
with fermented grape skins and dregs left over from wine production and exposed to air. This would leave a blue substance on the outside of the sheet.
This was then scraped off and dissolved in water. The resulting solid was used as a pigment, or combined with arsenic trioxide to form copper
acetoarsenite, a powerful insecticide and fungicide called Paris Green or Schweinfurt Green."
The LD50 for man is around 1,5 g for a 70 kg person. I wouldn't worry too much. |
|
|
|
phlogiston
International Hazard
Posts: 1375
Registered: 26-4-2008
Location: Neon Thorium Erbium Lanthanum Neodymium Sulphur
Member Is Offline
Mood: pyrophoric
|
|
From "Fireworks, The Art Science and Technique" by Takeo Shimizu:
| Quote: | Manufacture. One example is shown as follows: 3 00 grams of copper
sulphate is dissolved in 1000 cc of water, to which 250 grams of glacial
acetic acid is added; this solution is named "A". Then 200 grams of sodium
carbonate and 200 grams of arsenious acid are added to 1000 cc of water
and boiled to form a solution; this is named "B". B is added little by little
to A with constant stirring. Carbon dioxide gas is generated with active
bubbling. When all the solution B has been added, it is boiled for about
30 minutes, when copper acetoarsenite appears gradually as green perticles
in the solution. The mother liquor is removed by vacuum filtration, and
the green substance, copper acetoarsenite, is washed with water until the
sulphate ion disappears; it is then dried. The yield is about 180 grams. Too
little acetic acid spoils the colour of the product. The filtrate is also
poisonous and it must be treated with great care. Manufacture is quite
simple, but it is only possible to manufacture it in a chemical plant where
the drainage system is adequate. |
I have not tried it.
[Edited on 20-4-2017 by phlogiston]
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
|
|
pantone159
National Hazard
Posts: 586
Registered: 27-6-2006
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: desperate for shade
|
|
I am not familiar with As compounds, but the wikipedia entry for arsenious/arsenous acid As(OH)3 says that this has not been isolated as a pure
material. So where does one get 200 grams of it?
Also, what would be a good treatment method for the waste?
|
|
|
Fidelmios
Hazard to Others
Posts: 104
Registered: 28-4-2016
Location: Witty Chemistry Joke
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I am just looking into this right now... but it looks like a common way to treat arsenic is by oxidizing it to As+5 and/or C/F. From this site
| Quote: |
A cost-effective approach for arsenic removal is coagulation and precipitation (chemical processes) followed by filtration (a physical process), which
is termed coagulation/filtration (CF) in the water treatment industry. Common coagulants used for arsenic are iron salts and aluminum sulfate (alum).
|
However, this is just for treating the ground water.
| Quote: Originally posted by pantone159 | I am not familiar with As compounds, but the wikipedia entry for arsenious/arsenous acid As(OH)3 says that this has not been isolated as a pure
material. So where does one get 200 grams of it?
Also, what would be a good treatment method for the waste?
|
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
