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[*] posted on 1-6-2003 at 17:16
Amateur chemistry and school


Just wondering if any one of you had told anyone in school about the experiments you do etc..? If you did had anyone of you gotten a response like "drug lab" or "blowing things up?". I'm currently in highschool I don't tell anyone about what I do at home. Alot of ignorent people at my school they will just spread rumors about me "making drugs huh?" or "you make bombs". I just keep my mouth shut, because if it gets to a certain point the teacher will hear about them then I will get into legal trouble, since I have so much glassware at my house, that any excuse will not cut it. So I keep my mouth shut. Anyone else who had not told anyone I advise you to not brag about it. For those who did ,either form the past or currently I would like for you to share your story so we won't make the same mastakes.



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[*] posted on 1-6-2003 at 19:34


Yes, I get responses like that from some people, that I "Make bombs." Honestly, it annoys me; while explosives are fun, I don't like the idea of "bombs." "Bombs" are what kewls make. "Bombs" are things pulled from the Anarchist crapbook. "Bombs" are the excuses-of-weapons that kill more operators than targets. Besides, I don't do anything with explosives anyway...they scare me :).

Nevertheless, some people will always be like that. To them, I am a silly "pyro" and Amateur Chemistry is equal to bombmaking. I don't care what they think though, I let them be merry in their follies.

I do talk about my hobby and current projects, should people enquire. If they ask about it, more often than not they are interested and willing to listen to what I'm up to. But if they ask, "Hey [Samosa], how do I make a bomb?" or "Can you give me a recipe to Nerve Gas?" I rarely feel like answering- though I give them a basic explanation... why? Because I know it's over their head, and since they don't understand a thing I said to them, they will forget it in 2 minutes.

I do not, however, bring up my hobby if people do not ask. Though I am forthcoming with answers to questions, I am not going to just tell them what I am doing. Also, I do make suitable use of cover stories where needed- Chloropicrin is NOT a war gas, it is a pesticide or a tear gas (surprisingly, people don't find either of these two explanations to be very threatening) ;) . Why do I do this, you ask? Because by keeping people somewhat informed, and not being evasive, they are not suspicious of me. They "know" what I am doing, and they are not afraid. This way has worked well for me.

[Edited on 6-2-03 by Samosa]
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[*] posted on 1-6-2003 at 20:46
I agree with Samosa


on this absolutely. There is the point keeping the mouth shut gets dangerous as the "he hides something" syndrome comes up. Nothing makes peple so crazy than a possible secret near them. Next step will be wild rumors and against rumors one is helpless. (It´s best to create the rumors by oneself btw.)
So at a certain point you have to tell something so be prepared and make it your game. All of a sudden you have encountert someone interested in what you do - take happily your chance and tell him chemistry. Chemspeak. And don´t stop but tell. Be happy for this listener - make him a listener, ignore questions friendly hold tight conversations leadership. It´s unbelievable easy if you do what all do:
- Start speaking when the otherone hasn´t finished his sentence. (be sorry for this in a halfsentence and do it again at once)
- ignore what the other person told - thats unimportant, important is what you want to tell.
- don´t stop speaking. Not what but that you speak is it.
- stay friendly overhear all teasings offenses attacks open or hidden. If the other says: "you are an idiot", tell him "maybee" and explain a fractionating column and azeotropic distilation of tertiary azeotropes.

You won´t have to do this very often.
Promised.
;);););););););)




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[*] posted on 1-6-2003 at 21:26


I simply plead ignorance.



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[*] posted on 2-6-2003 at 00:44


Quote:

I simply plead ignorance.

Thus can come hard to oneself if very successful.
:o




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smile.gif posted on 2-6-2003 at 01:05


If you have true good friends you can make them participate to a tiny pyro show and explain that pyrotechny is great but as anything it is the use you make of it that is important; if it is only for fun, no troubles; but of course one can use it to arm people or destroy things.

Most of the time people will ask you if it is true, you must answer yes, but add that it is only for fun to make tiny fireworks, perfumes, crackers...never say bomb or explosives (unless real friends).
If ever they say bomb, you may add that to make a bomb is simply to make a large firework.Once satisfied they will leave you and have a certain respect and scare of you.




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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smile.gif posted on 8-6-2003 at 08:22


I think amateur chemistry is not to making
bombs or explosives more likely for sience
and fun. Everybody have other interrests
in chemistry and can share the interrests with others in a forum.
The people which thinking we making bombs from peroxides ... are fools.
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[*] posted on 8-6-2003 at 10:13


Last night I was camping with some mates - well, not really camping, just out in the countryside with some beers and a campfire, and a tent in case anyone did actually go to sleep - and we obviously needed to light the fire. The others had brought firelighters, which were not having much luck with the slightly green, quite big firewood. I got back from collecting wood and pulled out a 300g charge of plaster incendiary surrounded by a pound of paraffin wax, and got the fire going almost instantly.
That's the sort of situation when you can safely show people your skills; no-one is going to think you're an insane weirdo if you do something useful with pyrotechnics. They were all quite impressed, and very grateful that I had come prepared so that they didn't have to mess around trying to light the fire for hours.




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[*] posted on 10-6-2003 at 00:13


I place a bomb inthe same catogery as a knife or agun,a weapon.While I'm not a 'full'(lack of a better word)but a physiscst(well not necceserely a good one :) ).Though recently(after fidning this site)I've become more interested in it.I try to plead ignorence as much as possible.Did slip once but I gave them some shit starit of the anarchists cookbookafter that they dont belive me).
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[*] posted on 25-9-2003 at 07:15


Now, while I agree with the logic of not telling anyone and everyone about your hobby, here is proof that telling the right people can be productive:

http://www.boomspeed.com/mrcool/FreeGlass.jpg

It didn't cost me a penny :D.
(I do have the stand for that clamp, but it was being used when the pic was taken)

Basically, I have a "contact" who works in the field of medical research, and one of their labs was relocating for some reason, and they were having a clearout. I might even be able to get some more stuff, she basically just grabbed some stuff and put it in a box for me, then asked me to go and pick it up. Maybe even some useful chems too, but I'm not sure about that. I did get about 5kg of citric acid, I don't really have a use for it but it seemed a shame to let them throw it away.

Now I come to think of it, most of my glassware has been free from various sources. I've had to buy some of my quickfit, but that's mainly been due to breakages of the original free stuff :(.

Edit: sorry, I've just realised how awful the quality of that pic is! But it gets the point accross.

Another edit: I've just got 47 (yes, 47) pipettes, ranging in capacity from 0.1mL (in 0.005mL increments) up to 20mL, with just about every capacity and accuracy in between. Maybe more stuff on the way...

[Edited on 25-9-2003 by Nick F]

[Edited on 25-9-2003 by Nick F]




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[*] posted on 31-10-2003 at 13:06
I Call Bullshit On You madscientist, lol!


Quote:
I simply plead ignorance.


Haha, bullshit, I dont believe that for a second. :p

Who here can tell me that they resisted the desire to be known for being smart beyond what is normal? Oh please, most of you are still in highschool or younger. Having such intelligence is most apparent at those ages. It shows every time youopen your mouth, whether you talk about quantum mechanics or ask for a donut.

I know what it's like, I'm not old at all, lol. And for those ofyou that are older and out of school, there's no way you can tell me you were absolutely quiet about your knowledge, that none of it leaked into the open, and you were never known by peers as one who carried lots in your head. And you liked it,too. We all do/did.

You can argue all you want, but I'll never believe you, especially those of you in high school or younger, lol.

It might just be my personality, but I never had too much problems at school or in the workplace, and eventually everyone knows that I do things. It's just the way I've always handled it. In high school, my sophomore year when the columbine tragedy occured, I got a little bit of hell, but I was already established as a science freak,not a bomb freak.

The year after that I really came out of my shell. Our school had a video broadcast system (pretty common now) for the morning announcements and stuff, and those of us taking the Media Technology classes used the labs to create videos and productions for our class projects, which included the news studio that we usedto bring the morning announcements to the school every morning. Exceptional projects got aired after the announcements and credits, where the teachers could turn off their TVs and continue class if they wanted, or they could wait and watch the "shorts" as they were called; the short video presentations from media tech for that morning,.

I was on so often in my sophomore year that in my junior yr in advanced media tech I was given the opportunity to use school funding to finance a "show" of sorts, aired one "episode" every friday. All my shorts were about science and stuff, or random explosions or jumping cars off ramps, you know the normal "whoa" things young teenagers like to watch, especially if its someone they know.

My first airing was with a CO2 laser I built with the help of two teachers. It wasn't very strong and used a 5 gallon jug of water to keep it cool enough to operate more than 1 minute, but the effect was awesome.

I have a ton of great memories doing those shorts for school, and believe me it got me a lot of attention, both good and also bad. But I wont lie, I loved every second in my limelight. Even before my little show I had the same thing in my circle of friends, which Im willing to bet you all have too.

Whenever someone has a technical question, they go to you, don't they? Whenever there's an argument between friends of a technical nature, they cometo you for yoiur input to 'prove' their adversar wrong,dont they? Im sure they do, thats how it has always been with me and my peers, and I know I cant be alone in the world.

And you love it. If you say you dont then you're a liar, lol. I can understand not wanting the negtive attention, I hated being called 'the unibomber' too, but those idiots already didnt like me, it wasnt people that didnt know me that brought negative attention, it was always people who already hated me and just used that as more ammunition to throw at me. Everyone goes through it.

Most people know the majority of my 'hobbies' because for them to to so doesnt seem weird once they get to know me well. My hobbies arent constrained to backyard chemistry though, either, so it appears less weird, although usually more funny.

"What are you doing?
"Im melting plastic coke bottles."
"Why????"
"I'm going to see if I can saponify the polymeric ester that makes up the plastic."
"????? Uh ok.....why?"
"So I can decarboxylate the terphthalic acid to benzene and use that to make explosive."
"Jesus, why!?"

"Damnit, quit askin why, Imtrying to concentrate. Ialready told you yesterday, my remote controlled micro-aerial vehicle is going to have horizontally launched mini-missiles on it. I told you I wasnt kidding. You didnt believe me I take it?"

Heh, she rarely doubted what I said after that. :p

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[*] posted on 1-11-2003 at 18:51


None of my teachers have ever had anything bad to say about me doing chemistry at home and are usually very helpful when I ask them about things that we are not covering with the intent of going through with their advice later on in the day. My inorganic teacher the other day explained to me the practical advantages of using activated carbon over air float charcoal for the production of carbon disulfide in relation to the industrial process preparing it from coke. He knew full well that I would be doing it later in the day and looked foreword to me telling him how it went. All of my teachers have been like that, even in high school.... Well, most of them, my first organic Chem teacher gave me some weird looks so I used to go to my academic supervisor whenever I had a question during that semester, she's very good at inorganic.
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[*] posted on 8-10-2005 at 18:57


whenever i tell people of experiments or anything that has happened, i get responses such as "whoa dude your stupid" or "you did what?". i also have been given nicknames such as "explosives", "scientist from hell" and "bombs away".

its sad that the general publics idea of a "chemist" is a person cackling hysterically and pouring random bottles into a beaker, when really chemistry is one of the more exact sciences.
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[*] posted on 8-10-2005 at 21:08


Kickflip this is a very good question. Although I'm, no doubt, decades older than you I still struglle with how to handle this issue in all cases. I have read the earlier posts of Samosa and Organikum and think they are very good responses. You have to tell them something. So have a planned response. Above all do not get angry or ruffled. I like axehandle's technique of passing himself off as a "harmless geek." I think that is what Organikum is saying too.

I had a fume hood fabricated to my drawing. I titled the drawing "Hood." I told the fabricator I was going to do some metallurgical work and would have some acid fumes to deal with. It's times like these that coming up with some lie would just get you caught in your own jockstrap.




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[*] posted on 8-10-2005 at 21:54


Back in highschool, word got out about my chem/energetics hobby among other students, and occasionally I would be confronted about it at which time I would say things like "no, I dont make explosives, I had an experiment explode on me, there is a difference there". The chem teachers may have suspected something about me, I was "infamous in the chem department"(to quote one of my teachers), but I played dumb about energetics except the time my chem teacher said sulfuric acid is a catalyst in nitrations and I started ranting on nitronium and dehydration and so on. Every one of my chem teachers knew I did chem experiments at home, I even brought in my homemade magnetic stirrer(remember it....the cardboard one:D) for bragging rights as well as some sodium I produced via electrolysis it impressed them to say the least, and I got in good with the chem department to the point where I got free glass, and lab access. They may have suspected something, as one of my chem teachers came to me for more info on the halifax explosion. They knew I made picric acid though, after my chem teacher mentioned it was good for cleaning glassware. It makes you seem more legit if you hold up a 100% average in chem for the final two years of HS though :D

In university I met professors who would say things along the lines of "its so nice to see young people getting so interested in chemistry" and others who were completly aginst the home chemistry idea.

So simply put, just be carefull who you tell, and don't tell people to make yourself sound cool. The "popular group" in highschool it is important to keep this info from, as the popular group is usually much more closeminded about this. Teachers are fine as long as you get a general feel for what they would think about it, and then only discuss it with them in a scientific manner.

So again...be a harmless geek...its for the best.

[Edited on 9-10-2005 by rogue chemist]




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[*] posted on 9-10-2005 at 08:47


In grade 7 I got in trouble for giving a few students instructions for making various explosives (mostly crapbook stuff I'm ashamed to admit) and after that I was labeled.

Nobody seemed to care, this was a smalltown school and far removed from bigcity paranoia (not that rural ppl are more rational always... but they are more destruction-friendly in my area as it is expected that kids will play with guns [without permission but also without any serious attempts to prevent it], throw stolen ammo into fires and other such acts.)

So, in my last year of high-school* I was in my pre-calculus class along with the other 4 (yup small class... thats how many out of 50 had any intention of *possibly* going into the sciences) and one of them (popular-crowd girl, just to muddy the preconceptions) asked me what the most interesting way I could think of to blow up a microwave was.

Instead of authority squashing the topic, the rest of the 1 1/2 hour class was spend in a game of competition with the teacher trying to come up with the wierdest most spectacular geeky way to destroy a microwave. A fair number of ideas were useless and could not have worked, many were boring, and a good few were suicidally dangerous, and the rest of the class was missing about 60% of the conversation, but we all had fun.

My teachers seemed very frustrated by the limitations placed on them by school board etc... and they were not going to discourage a student from being interested in science just because he was doing "dangerous things".


* last year of high school: actually the last year I attended, grade 11, I did all the necessary courses minus 2 electives, which I decided to do via correspondence.

[Edited on 9-10-2005 by Oxydro]
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[*] posted on 16-10-2005 at 15:00


90% of stupidity or dumb things done by humans is inspiration to impress your friends that is why I don't give much details of what I am doing. I have a fear that my friends might try to peer pressure me into doing something stupid(corny but possible). "Hey man I double dog dare you to light a fire cracker out of your ass." So far I still have all limbs intact so my saying must be good? Common sense is always a good thing to have too.

I do not think that my chemistry teacher really likes me making various rocket fuels because I use to be reckless and make "big batches". However I got over the oo wow flames thing and haven't done anything over 10-20ish grams. Another reason is that I am doing some Magnesium Ammonium Nitrate mixtures and magnesium is pricy. However my 8th grade science teacher, 9th grade science teacher and biology teacher were some what happy that I was intrested in science.
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[*] posted on 11-11-2005 at 13:19


Some people in my class know that. Altough I have never done anything pyrotechnical, they say things like "well, how many bombs did you make yesterday". What is with people being obsessed with idea that chemistry=bombs?
Well, my chem teacher knows, as I am really interested in chemistry and one day it came out. Well, partially my fault, as I asked where does the school gets its chemicals. :/
Altough he said I can use the school lab :P

But I try to keep it a secret...And I can't really do many things too, cause my parents are obsessed with the idea that HCl is too dangerous chemical for me to have. Altough I do have it, they don't approve it...And they don't want me to have any hydroxides or acids..I'm really not that irresponsible...

Ok, I went out of topic, sorry :P

[Edited on 11-11-2005 by Ashendale]




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[*] posted on 11-11-2005 at 17:15


Everyone who knows me knows that I can and do make explosives as a hobby. I even gave a couple of my friends a demonstration (splintering a 2x4 block) a while ago.

Never had a problem.

They also know I am interested in chemistry but other than making nerve gas I don't get asked much about that, probably because to your average teenager explosives are far more interesting than organic chemistry.

I've never been "Hai guyz I make explosivez lol" but even so everyone knows. If they ask, I tell them, and I get asked a fair bit nowadays.

I get more trouble from my parents than from anyone else, because my mom is a complete safety freak and won't let me do anything remotely dangerous (which means pretty much everything). I do it anyway and don't tell her because she can't figure out what I am doing anyway, unless I directly say something like "I'm making nitroglycerin!". Making esters of glycerin with NO2+ ions is ok though :D
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thumbup.gif posted on 13-11-2005 at 08:39


My chemistry teacher (very nice guy btw):
"If the science block goes up I'll know whodunit lol"
People know I'm into chemistry and make jokes about (nuclear) bombs, but that's about it.




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[*] posted on 18-11-2005 at 20:42


For the most part, I keep quite about my hobby, I dont walk around telling everyone I see what I do. But my inner circle of friends get to hear more than they probably want to on occasion about my experiments.
I started talking to my Chemistry teacher about "hypothetical" reactions for a while until my practical chemistry knowledge overwelmed him and that did help me anymore. I borrowed a force sensor from my school one weekend for use in a rocketry experiment.....well my rocket exploded into 1000 peices and with it the very expensive force sensor, leaving me with a hige gash near my eye. After that that teacher would never let me leave the room without saying, "Dont blow yourself up".
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[*] posted on 19-11-2005 at 04:43


I keep quiet and don't borrow stuff from school. I have other sources;). Anyways my mates are the kind to wich you say something and the next second they forget.



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[*] posted on 18-1-2006 at 10:18


I always wanted to stay quiet about it, but some time a go a friend came to my place, and he just happened to see the garage so he obviously asked what I was doing so I told him everything, and he seemed to like it so much that now he has his own lab as well :D and yes I have 'borrowed' stuff from school sometimes.... all the rooms are always locked becouse there are TVs and such but the chemistry room is never locked :P I don't do this becouse I'm a thief and can't afford to buy the stuff but in my country nearly every chemical is banned so school is my only source for potassium chlorate and other stuff.
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[*] posted on 18-1-2006 at 12:02


I keep it quite. I have only told 2 people my age and only after knowing they were cool with it. I think the risks outweight the rewards of talking about the pratical aspects. I of course do very well in chemistry as I already know about it and I think my teacher might wonder why I seem to be familiar with the properties of compounds beyond mp, bp, formula ext. But I do not discuss doing any lab work. It's always a good idea to project the image you want people to see and not give them a reason to think otherwise...



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[*] posted on 18-1-2006 at 12:18


Quote:
Originally posted by oneup
I always wanted to stay quiet about it, but some time a go a friend came to my place, and he just happened to see the garage so he obviously asked what I was doing so I told him everything, and he seemed to like it so much that now he has his own lab as well :D and yes I have 'borrowed' stuff from school sometimes.... all the rooms are always locked becouse there are TVs and such but the chemistry room is never locked :P I don't do this becouse I'm a thief and can't afford to buy the stuff but in my country nearly every chemical is banned so school is my only source for potassium chlorate and other stuff.

Its not a smart thing to "borrow" things from school. It spoils the hobby of home chemistry and if you get caught with that, again there is a case for all journalists and so on. Please don't do that. I also have no affiliation with a chemical company, lab or whatever, but I managed to find every chemical I wanted (chlorates, perchlorates, even cyanides and azides). Look well, search forums, eBay etc. In due time, you build up contacts and suddenly all kinds of places pop up, where you can buy chemicals :P . The Netherlands is not bad at all, actually, for finding chemicals. If I read about Australia, or the UK then I think that the Netherlands is quite well. Having a PayPal account or credit card helps though. Having patience helps even more ;). Sometimes you find interesting chems at totally unexpected places.

[Edited on 18-1-06 by woelen]




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