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PirateDocBrown
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 06:22
Today, I march.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_for_Science
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violet sin
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 08:22


Me too, and I'll be wearing an SM shirt :) it will not be anywhere big, just the tiny town of Fort Bragg the coast. But it's the thought right.



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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 08:27


To me a March for Science insinuates that it's something that needs to be marched for. Instead, we all need science. Soon enough they'll come crying asking us to take them back.



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elementcollector1
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 09:42


Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid  
To me a March for Science insinuates that it's something that needs to be marched for. Instead, we all need science. Soon enough they'll come crying asking us to take them back.


Not really, if the 'ivory tower of science' is a theory to go by.




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JJay
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 09:57


I thought the turnout at the March for Philosophy on President's Day was disappointing.



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PirateDocBrown
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 10:17


They are rejecting climate science so they can continue polluting.
They want your tax dollars to go to schools that teach kids the Earth is only 6000 years old.
They don't want your kids to be able to think for themselves, so they can program them.
They simply don't care about exploring the mysteries of the Universe.
They reject vaccination and the tax money that supports it.

This is why I march.
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BromicAcid
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 10:49


Quote: Originally posted by PirateDocBrown  
They are rejecting climate science so they can continue polluting.
They want your tax dollars to go to schools that teach kids the Earth is only 6000 years old.
They don't want your kids to be able to think for themselves, so they can program them.
They simply don't care about exploring the mysteries of the Universe.
They reject vaccination and the tax money that supports it.

This is why I march.


But do they actually care?




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elementcollector1
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 11:18


They'll pretend to if we yell at them enough, at least.



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Texium (zts16)
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 12:09


I marched today in Austin (and wore my Sciencemadness shirt). There was a huge turnout, with thousands of people there at the capitol building. Sure, alone it might not accomplish much, but it was a great experience, and very uplifting to see that so many people care about science, or at least recognize that the government should.



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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 12:41


Hmm...My parents have been called 'programmers of children'. Yuck. I quite hate that phrase because it is just about as egotistical a thing to say as ever. Programmers - bah. What's the difference between a parent and a teacher and a newspaper and a blog? They all are forms of persuasion to think a certain wa, to think a certain thing.

I saw on the Wikipedia page for this march that 'scientists must also protest when "truth itself is being called into question"'. Which I think is quite sad. Scientists are those that study the natural world and attempt to reach conclusions regarding it. But from the beginning, it's been a striving *for* truth. First of all, no sane scientist should say he *has* truth. It's something constantly being attained to, to discover more and to try to figure things out. So to say 'I have the truth and you have error' would be rather hypocritical of those scientists who criticize religion for saying the same thing.

I guess all I'm saying is that the march to publicize scientific research is cool. But it is egotistical to say 'we have the truth, and you're wrong for thinking other things.' Scientists have been persuaded to think certain things based on the research they and other scientists have done. Others have not been persuaded by this research, and instead been persuaded by something else. How dare you be aloof about your opinions on what is fact, when you weren't even the one to come up with them, nor did you seek them out, but someone else did.

I know this isn't my usual post, and I aught to just talk about chemistry stuff on here. But I think some of the above posts were darkly aloof and opinionated for supposed 'scientists' and lovers of science.

Also, no personal attack meant on PirateDocBrown, but I thought his line "They simply don't care about exploring the mysteries of the Universe [...] This is why I march." was quite funny. As if everyone is an idiot for not wanting to explore the universe :) (I mean, *I* do too, but I just thought the phrasing was quite funny in the context of his post.

Cheers - And don't take this post to be harsh or something, it's my 'opinion' :) There is obviously one 'truth' out there, and those who aren't even trying to find it are foolish. But as long as they're seeking out truth, they're on the right path, and who are you to say what truth they think they've found is 'lesser' than yours.




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Metacelsus
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 14:43


I marched in Minneapolis (edit: technically St. Paul). (I got up at 6:30 am so I could get my lab work done before the march started.) The march was overall a positive experience. There were some really funny signs, and everyone seemed enthusiastic. However, the speeches given at the rally at the end of the march weren't very inspirational, at least in my opinion.

I think the march was a good way to show the public cares about science and call attention to the issue, but marching will not be sufficient to change the policies of the administration. I urge everyone to vote in 2018.

[Edited on 4-23-2017 by Metacelsus]




As below, so above.
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Morgan
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 19:09


https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/66ywqr/a_canine_march...
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PirateDocBrown
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 19:49


Quote: Originally posted by Metacelsus  
I marched in Minneapolis. (I got up at 6:30 am so I could get my lab work done before the march started.) The march was overall a positive experience. There were some really funny signs, and everyone seemed enthusiastic. However, the speeches given at the rally at the end of the march weren't very inspirational, at least in my opinion.
ent to change the policies of the administration. I urge everyone to vote in 2018.


I marched in St Paul also. I agree, the speaking part of the rally was not well done. They needed speakers who could inform and inspire, not people who lead chanting. We are people who work with our minds, and mindless chanting falls flat. I think a lot of what the problem was, was that dedicated activists, and not actual concerned scientists took the lead.

We needed to talk about interesting investigations whose funding is in peril. About teachers concerned children are not being given the tools they need. We needed public health experts talking about the problems posed by a lack of vaccinations, and weather people about climate change.
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[*] posted on 22-4-2017 at 19:55


About 350 attended the Fort Bragg Ca. march for science. For such a small area, it was a nice turnout( <8k pop). Had my fam there also, nice walk which ended at a local park, 3yo loved that. Regardless of how others looked at it, I saw it as a chance to stand up and say science isn't a fad that should come and go with presidents... We could always use more understanding, always.



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[*] posted on 23-4-2017 at 08:56


http://i.imgur.com/YMFOgOS.jpg
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[*] posted on 23-4-2017 at 10:17


The turnout in Austin was estimated to be around 10,000! Quite a bit more than I had expected. I thought that the speakers at the Austin rally before the march were pretty good. Only one was trying to lead chants, the others were very informative and inspiring, including two professors from UT Austin.

The most memorable speech though was by a minister who spoke up to denounce the ultra conservative religious right, making the point that religion should be able to adapt, and that those who wish to use their religion as an excuse to oppress facts or people are not being true to God. She was a very powerful speaker, and though she wasn't a scientist herself, and I am not religious, I appreciated what she had to say.




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[*] posted on 23-4-2017 at 22:33


why wasn't the march in march ?
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[*] posted on 23-4-2017 at 23:11


The left-wingers who planned it originally it were trying to exploit a short-term order not to speak to the media that Trump issued to several organizations, including the EPA, FDA, USDA, etc. Several people at the EPA violated the order and complained, leading to an outcry and a planned protest, and the date that they chose was Earth Day. After the order was lifted, the march turned into something a little more mainstream, although I have seen more than a few snide remarks about the intelligence levels of the protesters from conservative scientists.



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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 04:41


Quote: Originally posted by PirateDocBrown  
They are rejecting climate science so they can continue polluting.
They want your tax dollars to go to schools that teach kids the Earth is only 6000 years old.
They don't want your kids to be able to think for themselves, so they can program them.
They simply don't care about exploring the mysteries of the Universe.
They reject vaccination and the tax money that supports it.

This is why I march.


You suffer from a popular confusion identifying incorrectly what is the factual nature of the "us versus them" sort of adversarial scenario and division that is the premise for your "protest march".

Examine the third "They" you mention:
Quote:
They don't want your kids to be able to think for themselves, so they can program them.

This statement ironically exposes the exact affliction which you suffer already having been accomplished by brainwashing applied to you by those "masterminds" who have estimated themselves competent to "teach" you. By good evidence your "teachers" are not really practical minded or rational "teachers" but are radical leftist extremist ideologues, probably Marxists, and their "teaching" amounts to what has been an indoctrination of their "students" in atheist / secular humanist dogma which they count for knowledge.

The object and goal of that globalist "hive mind" Marxist propaganda which has been falsely advertised as "enlightenment" is to redefine reality about what is accepted and believed by the masses to be "common sense". Through gradualism and the effect of peer pressure from those already embracing "political correctness" as taught by Marxist "philosophers" a "reeducation" of the masses is supposed to occur that brings popular acceptance of subversive ideas and principles hoped to be embraced as the "new normal" as simple "truths" that "everybody" adopts as the new and improved "facts of life" in this world.

When that acceptance of the "hive mind" propaganda has been accomplished and has sufficient numbers of "true believers" as a percentage of "society", then a "cultural hegemony" has been achieved for tyrannical imposition of the "enlightened view" and
any dissenters will be stigmatized as "defectives" or sociopathological for reason that their "free thinking" ideas are
DIVERGENT from the propaganda supported lies that have become
the new "conventional wisdom".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony





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PirateDocBrown
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 06:33


I hardly think in the present, the 21st-century United States, the cultural values of Marxism are the ones the ruling classes are attempting to impose.

Social theory notwithstanding, I want real science taught in public schools, with public dollars. Real reasoning. Real critical thought, so children can grow into adult citizens capable of free and analytical thinking. Without such citizens, any free society is doomed, left-wing, right-wing, or centrist.

By what "good evidence" could you possibly have that my high-school chemistry teacher, say, was any kind of Marxist? Or is that more hive-mind thought?
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 07:35


You simply fail to recognize what are indeed "social justice" tenets that are in fact "cultural values" of Marxism. Your failure to recognize that ideology is a matter of design. Few or none of your "teachers" would want you to recognize the psychology being applied to deceive and manipulate your thinking.

The supercilious tone of your misleading characterization of societal "division" is a signature artifact, like a "makers mark" on the analysis of "evidence" and "world view" of a mind that has been subjected to the Marxist indoctrination of "political correctness".

How much insult to your own innate intelligence would you suffer and indulge and how much loss of personal liberty and dignity would you endure in service of the altruistic motive that it "serves the greater good" (of "society") when it becomes clear that motivation is being cultivated as a deliberate socially engineered deception?



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PirateDocBrown
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 08:52


Careful, you could wear out your quotation mark key.

In general, we scientists are working to make a better future for all of humanity. I know I am, I have grandkids. There are those in the world that have no interest in the long term, nor in the general good, and strive for self enrichment only, and only in the now. A social expression of an id, if you want to put a psychological label on it.

That's the division I'm talking about. Marxist economics has nothing to do with it. As for politics, I rather disdain them. It breaks my heart that I must turn to politics to try to turn these ugly trends around, if indeed they can be turned around. We had better hope they can. I for one want neither a corporatist nor a Marxist dystopia.

The betterment of our species is nothing but humanism.
The betterment of America is nothing but patriotism.

What you describe is neither.
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 09:41


Quote: Originally posted by PirateDocBrown  
Careful, you could wear out your quotation mark key.

In general, we scientists are working to make a better future for all of humanity. I know I am, I have grandkids.


Scientists have their work to do of course, but often fail to see clearly the big picture. Science has a proper context and practical application limitations, yet both aspects are often denied or ignored by scientists who overestimate their power as well as the power of their craft.

I have grandchildren as well. A better future for all humanity is not what the Marxist model will produce, nor will the caliphate. Practical men working towards practical goals can achieve a lot of good, far beyond the tyranny imposed by those brutal sociopathological ideologies.
Quote:

There are those in the world that have no interest in the long term, nor in the general good, and strive for self enrichment only, and only in the now. A social expression of an id, if you want to put a psychological label on it.

That's the division I'm talking about. Marxist economics has nothing to do with it. As for politics, I rather disdain them. It breaks my heart that I must turn to politics to try to turn these ugly trends around, if indeed they can be turned around. We had better hope they can. I for one want neither a corporatist nor a Marxist dystopia.

But you do not see that Science has been co-opted by Marxism as a validating higher power and surrogate god, a replacement "ethic" and substitute morality which has no fitness for the task.
Quote:

The betterment of our species is nothing but humanism.

Humanitarianism always won that race.
Quote:

The betterment of America is nothing but patriotism.

What you describe is neither.


It matters what one identifies as "better" and that is a value judgment based on depth of understanding. Many changes have been advertised as "progress" that in actuality have not been helpful changes but have been mistakes refused to be identified correctly by persons who will not be honest in any analysis of what ideas don't work out in reality as may have been hoped or envisioned.

What some would identify as betterment of America is travel down a path to moral decadence and destruction, and likewise would be true for citizens of other nations and what they might incorrectly believe is progress.

What I have described is an objective observation that is good evidence and fact based consistent with history.
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 11:07


What you aren't discerning is that there is an existential threat, not only to free republics, but also to human progress. You correctly identify regressive ideologies such as Marxism and Islamism as opposed to Western values, yet neither of them have ever been successful. The 20th century showed that Marxism fails to take into account human motivation, while I do recall that Western culture eclipsed Islam centuries ago.

The elephant in the room which you seem to be pointedly ignoring is the one that truly CAN destroy what we have built, and that is corporate fascism. 1929 was a wakeup call about its economic tactics, largely corrected in the subsequent 15 years, but systematically subverted in the last 35. Ike warned us about dangers of its combination with our free politics in his farewell speech, but we have ignored it. Neither American neocolonialism nor our domestic national security police state is sustainable, in a context consistent with the free republic our Founders set up, nor with a human goal of a better future.

If you wish to speak of moral decadence and destruction, then that is the decadence and destruction that I refer to.

As for humanism, you seem to be confused with what I mean, so I'll give you a working definition:

Humanism - An ethical system that centers on humans and their values, needs, interests, abilities, dignity and freedom; especially one which rejects superstition.
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 11:42


Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I have seen more than a few snide remarks about the intelligence levels of the protesters from conservative scientists.


The words "scientist" and "conservative" certainly make strange bedfellows, do they not?
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