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Author: Subject: Today, I march.
JJay
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 12:02


It depends on how you look at it. I know a lot of biologists, and they tend to span the political spectrum, but the ones I know with PhDs are conservative christians who claim to believe in creationism and that the earth is 5000 years old. In reality, I'm pretty sure they aren't mentally retarded. I see much the same pattern with nurses and doctors or engineers and physicists.

Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but most of the people at the March for Science weren't really scientists, right?




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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 12:06


PhD biologists who claim to be young earth creationists? Seriously?



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JJay
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 12:14


Yeah, seriously... they have no problem teaching the theory of evolution on Tuesday afternoon and having a bible discussion on the age of the earth on Sunday morning.

I don't mean to suggest that I think these people are entirely right in the head, but those are the patterns I see. I'm not really sure why, but my guess is that religious leaders really like having those sorts of people as members of their churches and bend over backwards to keep them around.





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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 12:14


Ben Carson syndrome at its finest.



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The Volatile Chemist
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 12:28


Damnnn, you all went to town...

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
I have seen more than a few snide remarks about the intelligence levels of the protesters from conservative scientists.


The words "scientist" and "conservative" certainly make strange bedfellows, do they not?


Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
PhD biologists who claim to be young earth creationists? Seriously?


Good stuff. Good stuff. Sorry for adding fuel to the fire of not-march-related posts earlier. Perhaps a pruning would do this thread good...




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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 12:29


Quote: Originally posted by PirateDocBrown  
What you aren't discerning is that there is an existential threat, not only to free republics, but also to human progress. You correctly identify regressive ideologies such as Marxism and Islamism as opposed to Western values, yet neither of them have ever been successful. The 20th century showed that Marxism fails to take into account human motivation, while I do recall that Western culture eclipsed Islam centuries ago.

The elephant in the room which you seem to be pointedly ignoring is the one that truly CAN destroy what we have built, and that is corporate fascism. 1929 was a wakeup call about its economic tactics, largely corrected in the subsequent 15 years, but systematically subverted in the last 35. Ike warned us about dangers of its combination with our free politics in his farewell speech, but we have ignored it. Neither American neocolonialism nor our domestic national security police state is sustainable, in a context consistent with the free republic our Founders set up, nor with a human goal of a better future.

If you wish to speak of moral decadence and destruction, then that is the decadence and destruction that I refer to.

As for humanism, you seem to be confused with what I mean, so I'll give you a working definition:

Humanism - An ethical system that centers on humans and their values, needs, interests, abilities, dignity and freedom; especially one which rejects superstition.


You are incorrect about the level of success and the subversive influence on the world of those two repressive and tyrannical ideologies, to which could well be added as a lesser offender what you have termed corporate fascism. The biggest offender and player in that control freaks' authoritarian game has been medicine and the pharmaceutical and health care industry that together with the legal profession and legislators have gained far too much unchecked power over the lives of ordinary citizens.

The entire proposition of what is "reasonably" healthy and what is "reasonable" product safety being given excessive emphasis has bred three generations of paranoid / excessively risk averse hypochondriacs. There is a major pollution of the airwaves by the tasteless advertising of "big pharma" pill-for-every-ill pill pushers to the point it is like the snake oil wagon come to town. And that whole SCAM needs to be run out of town. Those who empower it need to be put out of business by the FCC so that there is no direct advertising allowed for prescription medicines, medical devices, medical procedures, or the ambulance chaser lawyer ads who offer to sue such providers for their malpractices. Help, I've fallen and I can't get up...and all its progeny needs to have a sock stuffed in its mouth and gagged ...tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. Likewise should be done with the gun control fanatics.

The military industrial complex is a necessary evil and exists in all nations which have any military capacity. Defense industries are nothing new and certainly has been around for a few thousand years.

Humanism is an invented religion / ethic / philosophy and it seems the true definition is always in flux. I'm sure a situational ethic there allows for a lot of flexibility for atheists to do whatever they think is right and have a clear conscience, since the distinction between right and wrong is often subjective and variable or thought to be inconsequential or irrelevant and amounts to a purely "cultural" whim and abstract belief ....like a superstition.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 12:31


You guys are feds, right?



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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 12:52


Ask Darwin .....he seems to have it all figured out.
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 14:37


Takes all kinds, I guess.
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 15:31


Yay. Another "Let's criticize conservatives and Christians" thread. I was starting to wonder when the usual players would start up again. This kind of discussion isn't even allowed here, except that it is. This is disappointing.

I post here because I enjoy chemistry...and science, and like to feel that I'm helping others along at the same time. Every time I see this type of thread it's a distraction, and a reminder that I'm collaborating with people who in turn are at least insinuating that I'm brain damaged or "anti-science", or whatever. That's a real motivation killer, there.

So, is this what we're all about at SM? I'm ill-inclined to discuss these topics here. Some people are willing to engage in long, detailed, replies (cough); as for me, I just feel motivated to avoid the forum. If it's not too much to ask, can we get back to our regular Mad Science programming?






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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 17:23


One can criticize creationists without criticizing Christians as a whole. One can criticize science-denying GOP members without criticizing conservatives as a whole.



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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 17:30


Enough, already...



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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 18:38


Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
One can criticize creationists without criticizing Christians as a whole. One can criticize science-denying GOP members without criticizing conservatives as a whole.
True, and I don't personally see a problem with that, with this being a science forum and all. Therefore I'm leaving this thread open, at least for the time being.



Come check out the Official Sciencemadness Wiki
Have a particular topic you're really interested in currently? Why not make a page for it? The wiki can always benefit from more contributors.

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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 19:15


Regardless of one's political views, an 18% cut to the NIH budget would be disastrous. If a liberal president were to have proposed that (not to mention the cuts to other organizations such as the EPA), I would have protested just as much.

It's important to remember that neither the red tribe nor the blue tribe has a monopoly on misinformed ideology. Climate change is important, but genetically modified organisms and nuclear power are key to fighting it. There is also a disturbing tendency among liberals to ignore the effects of genetics on human abilities and behavior. However, as it is today, the gravest threat to science comes from the right.




As below, so above.
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[*] posted on 25-4-2017 at 03:46


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Ask Darwin .....he seems to have it all figured out.


At least there's no shortage of half-educated morons out there to tell us just how wrong Darwin was!

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[*] posted on 25-4-2017 at 05:07


Berkley style speech "Liberty" and its symbolism historical nexus

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-JiNIMXsAEuk99.jpg

People who are a mile wide and an inch deep see so much about which they have no real understanding. There is a profound difference between sight and discerning. And about this world are many things that factually do exist ....yet cannot be seen nor quantified ...although for some who are able, are things that may be discerned. In such matters, those who rely on sight alone ....have all the confidence of the blind who lead the blind. They are cocksure fools.... every single damn one.

[Edited on 4/25/2017 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 00:54


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-JiNIMXsAEuk99.jpg


[Edited on 4/25/2017 by Rosco Bodine]


I'm still quite confused about the points you are trying to make, Rosco.

Is this jpg to imply that 1930's German Communists should NOT have opposed Hitler, and simply allowed him to slaughter them? I myself have been to Plotzensee Prison, and have seen where many of them were beheaded(!) at Hitler's orders.

Or are you saying that the outcome for the world had German Communists defeated Hitler would have been somehow worse than WWII in Europe?

As to my OP:

What, exactly, do you have an argument with? You seem opposed to my views, but all I have expressed are the following:

Opposition to false science paid for by public dollars.
Support for universal vaccination.
Opposition to poor instruction of children in reasoned discourse.
Support of scientific inquiry.
Opposition to the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Which of these are you contending with? Why?

You then criticize my "tone". I'd like to think I offered no tone at all, but a rather detached accounting of my views. Yet I see in you a tone of considerable defensiveness. Where does this stem from? I'm not denying the validity of your perspective, such as I have come to understand it, I'm simply trying to analyze its origins.
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JJay
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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 01:21


All I'm saying is that if you've never heard a couple of people debate over whether the earth is 5000 years old or 6000 years old, you're missing out.





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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 06:31


Quote: Originally posted by PirateDocBrown  
Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-JiNIMXsAEuk99.jpg


[Edited on 4/25/2017 by Rosco Bodine]


I'm still quite confused about the points you are trying to make, Rosco.


Earlier I made the observation that science has been co-opted by Marxism. So it is mysterious how you don't understand the nexus with communism and the muzzling of free speech that is part of that tyrannical and biased incorporation, which has been a fact of history.

Quote:

Is this jpg to imply that 1930's German Communists should NOT have opposed Hitler, and simply allowed him to slaughter them? I myself have been to Plotzensee Prison, and have seen where many of them were beheaded(!) at Hitler's orders.

Or are you saying that the outcome for the world had German Communists defeated Hitler would have been somehow worse than WWII in Europe?

The nexus and the propaganda bias and agenda is the same for early Marxists as it is today for the "antifa" leftist communist radicals / anarchist / mob rule thugs who have as one of their credentials an agenda to "control the narrative" and censor free speech. At this discussion board are precisely that same radical extremist and tyrannical MARXIST / Communist "hive mind" who would muzzle any opposing view to what is not science at all but could be called "scientism" which looks to science as the ultimate provider of all "truth". It is a trampling of liberty and a perversion of science that is an agenda for hive mind Marxists who strive to achieve cultural hegemony for whatever tyranny can be imposed under the banner of science.....and of course...the pretext as always would be claiming justification is "the greater good" when that is a subjective opinion that is often not true.

Quote:

As to my OP:

What, exactly, do you have an argument with? You seem opposed to my views, but all I have expressed are the following:

Opposition to false science paid for by public dollars.
Support for universal vaccination.
Opposition to poor instruction of children in reasoned discourse.
Support of scientific inquiry.
Opposition to the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Which of these are you contending with? Why?


The way in which you describe a false dichotomy by libeling others who may disagree and "typing" those as some "science deniers"
when that is a profound over reaching and false generalization.

Go back and examine how you champion "why" you march as if any who might have a different idea are merely inferior intellects, and superstitious "science deniers" something akin to unevolved and illiterate cannibals compared to enlightened masterminds like yourself.

It is classic "us versus them" ....look at your own words

Quote: Originally posted by PirateDocBrown  
They are rejecting climate science so they can continue polluting.
They want your tax dollars to go to schools that teach kids the Earth is only 6000 years old.
They don't want your kids to be able to think for themselves, so they can program them.
They simply don't care about exploring the mysteries of the Universe.
They reject vaccination and the tax money that supports it.

This is why I march.


You completely mischaracterize others by taking pot shots at people who believe in God as being imbeciles for not being a Darwinist Atheist Mastermind as all "authentic" science endorsers you would suppose are on the shining path to real truth and enlightenment. It is the same asinine attitude as applies to not everyone a member of the church of Al Gore somehow being a "science denier" when no, they may simply not have a hysterical and alarmist reaction to the big news that the earth has warmed a fraction of a degree over the last hundred years and that pollution by man has played some role in that warming. Many people simply do not have an alarmist view of that science nor do they see any need for extraordinary efforts to intervene when the cost versus benefit analysis is rationally done. Such persons are not idiots.
Many are very intelligent scientists and engineers who have highly practical views and are not biased by any sort of hysteria or political or ideological obsession.

Quote:

You then criticize my "tone". I'd like to think I offered no tone at all, but a rather detached accounting of my views. Yet I see in you a tone of considerable defensiveness. Where does this stem from? I'm not denying the validity of your perspective, such as I have come to understand it, I'm simply trying to analyze its origins.


Science was preserved through the dark ages by the church and many of its advanced theories are the work of the intellects of men who were priests. It is asinine stupidity of the highest and most insultingly offensive order for Darwinist / Atheist / Communists to even begin to imagine that science is somehow the exclusive dominion of those like themselves who have a one dimensional crippled discerning that too easily distinguishes what is natural or supernatural while never even entertaining the possibility that it is beyond the capability of a human to comprehend all that is "truth"
and that such truth likewise may be beyond the capacity of any human invented science to describe.
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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 07:23


Well, I never once mentioned Darwin, atheism or Communism, until you did, first. At no time did I speak of religion. Stop projecting your arguments onto me.

Are you going to answer ANY oft the 6 specific questions I posed? Or are you just wasting time here?

And "church of Al Gore?" I have no idea what church he goes to. I've never been to church with him. I'm an Episcopalian.

[Edited on 4/26/17 by PirateDocBrown]
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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 07:25


Tell me, Roscoe, what would you think of a chemist who insisted that the phlogisten theory of combustion was correct, and that the oxidation theory was not?



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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 07:33


not-only-a-member-al-gore-and-the-church-of-climatology-political-poster-1261583223.jpg - 41kB


The intellectual dishonesty at this board is incredible and it always comes from exactly the same atheists.

[Edited on 4/26/2017 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 07:52


Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Tell me, Roscoe, what would you think of a chemist who insisted that the phlogisten theory of combustion was correct, and that the oxidation theory was not?


I think it got sorted out in time, and that time is an abstract relative quantity and a dimension that is completely a function of relative velocity, a purely local phenomenon the Lorentz transformation describes.

What would you think of an ancient alchemist who would describe transmutation of elements centuries before breeder reactors would allow for that same alchemist to say "I told you so" ?
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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 08:55


It's true: preatomic chemistry got a lot wrong, but nonetheless motivated a productive research program.

This is in stark contrast to the pseudointellectual wallowing of creation "science" and climatological "skepticism".





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[*] posted on 26-4-2017 at 10:46


What do climate scientists do all day, anyway?



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