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Author: Subject: rhodizonate without nitric acid
The jersey rebel

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smile.gif posted on 23-4-2017 at 17:00
rhodizonate without nitric acid

Hello. I was wondering if there's a way to produce a rhodizonate salt without needing nitric. I don't really have access to the acid needed with the inositol method due to state and township laws in my area.:mad:. You need a permit to get nitric acid due to environmental protection concerns and because new jersey seems to like controlling just about everything. I heard about using glyoxal but the yield was about 9% so I would like to know if there's a better method.
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Texium (zts16)
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23-4-2017 at 18:27
International Hazard

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[*] posted on 23-4-2017 at 19:26

Potassium rhodizonate is produced by the carbothermal reduction of potassium carbonate, but some products of this reaction are explosive (dipotassium acetylenediolate is the suspected culprit) and a lot of carbon monoxide is released by the reaction.

Might make more sense to look into making nitric acid, since nitrate salts are widely available.
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[*] posted on 24-4-2017 at 06:29

I really doubt that you're going to get much sympathy from many of the other members on here for your "restricted chemical access". Look at some of the laws in the EU, they're much worse.

There isn't anything special about New Jersey in particular AFAIK as far as chemical restrictions go, conc. sulfuric acid is readily available in the US, as are nitrate salts. You're one simple distillation away from nitric acid, that's most likely going to be substantially easier than finding and carrying out any other alternative routes to rhodizonates.

I prepare all of my own nitric acid as well, not due to a lack of availability(I'm one state over, so you shouldn't have any problems ordering it if you really want to), I'm just not terribly eager to pay for the mandatory hazmat fees to ship it.

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[*] posted on 5-3-2018 at 07:22

Just out of impatience (apparently now I can't even find nitrate salts UK, might have to resort to medieval methods) and chemical curiosity, how difficult would this synth be with electrolysis?

So far i'm imagining the product being of much lower solubility would clog electrodes.
The best solvent for Inositol being water(?), voltage restrictions might be a problem.

My end goal is Croconate, so could I just smash it with an oxidising basic environment (bleach/NaOH)?

(edit: will do a small scale test, colour change should be obvious enough)

[Edited on 5-3-2018 by Swinfi2]
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